[Richard B. Price]

This is very True David, I suspect extreme caution will be adviced with its use. If that doesnt work, there are always longer or shorter handles.

[James Head]

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but somebody is going to get hurt if you continue.

The short handled / long chain flail is most likely a late Renaissance invention which was employed from horseback.

Trying to use a 'real' one while standing on the ground is not going to turn out well. :-(

[Richard B. Price]

easy fix making the handle longer and the chain shorter, like I said its not completed yet, I still have alot of wiggle room

[Allen Foster]

Looking at all the pictures, it occurred to me that there was a big variance in the size and mass of the ball (spike) end of the flail. I've played around with my A&A flail on several occasions and I've always thought that the weapon would have been awkward unless the person had the strength to weld it properly. In addition to the length of the chain being a factor, it looks like size and mass of the ball was important too. The flails with balls that have hollow centers would have had less impact power, but would have been much lighter and faster to use. It makes me wonder if the perfect flail for each individual depended directly on their size, strength and stature and that's the reason there is such a wide variance in the size, mass and chain length of the flails. Hmmm

[Thomas Peters]

Richard,
From the picture you posted it looks like you are using a head for your flail that is like the head of a flange mace. That is one I have not seen before and is rather intriguing.
From my own experience be extremely careful with the flail chain being the same length as the handle. The replica flail I have has a chain that is longer than the handle which helps to keep you from smashing your own fingers. A shorter chain would also have the same benefit. Also make sure the chain is very well secured to the handle and flail head. You do not want the chain or flail head to come off while you are swinging it.
As a fighter in our medieval group I have used a padded flail based on the replica I have and have also practiced with the replica. I will give you the same advice I give the other fighters in my group that want to use the flail.
"The head on the end of the chain is like a bullet after it leaves the barrel of a gun. It travels until it hits something or until its momentum stops. It is as dangerous to the person swinging it as it is to the person it is being swung at"
Be careful and have fun

[Richard B. Price]

thanks for the tip Thomas, it is based on a flanged mace, i made several of them a couple years back, with the same methodology. I have already turned another handle for it making one 2ft in length, with the short chain. As for securing the head and chain, I will be welding them, with the eye bolt a full 12 inches long secured in the handle, I have also epoxied and pinned it through, though the aren't visible in the picture. I knew this one was going to present some challenges, which is why I tend to over engineer everything i make.

[Ben Bouchard]

It surprising seeing the lack of languettes or other protective measures on many of the spiked flails. I would rather expect them to end up chewing up their own handles over time.

[David Gaál]

These were "peasant" weapons (next to straightened scythes and every agricultural tool which could be used as weapon) but how common were such weapons in an army?
How common was recruiting peasants for war?
And what percent of the army was equiped by such weapons?
I know that to these questions could be answered differently from battle to battle but if I see such large amount of these weapons like in the Landeszeughaus in Graz and that big mass of "low" quality and guess not tailor-made armour I would think that the wars were no more the privilege of nobleman. I feel that the increasing number of such weapons lies in a structural change of the society in the 16-17th century. Could this be right?

[William P]

http://xlegio.ru/ancient-armies/armament/ruse...rontation/

in here is proof that the khazars, and the rus have been using flails since the 8th century.

here is a translation of the passage from the website translated from russian in google translate (its the block of text just above the pictures for those who want the original text)

"Flails in the complex weapons Khazars (an odd translation) have been known since the beginning of the VIII century. They are divided into two types by the method of suspension: flails and flails with an eye to the longitudinal through hole. Flails with a longitudinal through hole just hung on a strap and can be used as horsemen and foot soldiers. Flails with an eye fastened with straps to a wooden handle. Such a bludgeon used by horsemen. The most common type among them - egg-shaped bone bludgeons with an iron rod inside the 10. Typical examples of this type, made from moose antlers were found in graves Gochevskogo burial ground (Belovsky District, Kursk.). One of them was found during excavations of DY Samokvasova (Mound 51), the second - Expedition GY Starodubtsev (Mound 30: Figure 2). It should be noted, and the fact that both the bone "cavalry" dagger was found in the mounds, containing female burials. "

according to the diagram of the object withthe scale bar, the thing was ROUGHLY 4cm wide at the widest point and approximately 5-7cm long, not including the iron ring used to attatch it to the strap.

though i somewhat question the amount of damage such a small head, one made of bone, which isnt exactly a very dense material, combpared to iron or bronze, would be able to deliver to anyone not completely unclothed, and i also wonder how many hits before the bone shatters upon contact with a shield or helmet or something.

[Graham Shearlaw]

war has never been the privilege of a nobleman.
picking what you do in war time has been and stills the privilege of the upper class.
where flail a "peasant" weapon?

most "peasants" will have use the best weapon thay could get there hands on.
a flails is not a great main weapon but as a back up it is a great inprovement over a dagger.

[M Black]

Hello out there people,
This is my first post on myArmoury. There have been some very insightful posts in this thread and it piqued my interest in posting myself. I've worked at Arms & Armor in Minneapolis for over 20 years (plus hanging out with the armor shop gang almost ten years before that), and made a few two-handed maces and flails. We've smacked 16 gauge test breast plates with various blunt objects and even though the spikes won't penetrate the steel, they will dent the heck out of it, which would "ring the bell" of the opponent. If the blow landed on an elbow or shoulder joint, it might distort the metal enough to impede motion or make that guy drop his weapon. Also, something else lots of people seem to forget, most combatants had little or no armor at all. ouch! I have read (I can't remember where) that large numbers of men from the surrounding countryside were conscripted into armies as they marched to battle. they would have to make do with whatever was at hand for a weapon as only the rich could afford nice swords etc. I would be relatively easy to add a few spikes to an existing agricultural flail. All points about effectiveness aside, no real mention has been made about the intimidation factor, it would be SCARY to have one of these weapons swinging towards you. You just know it'll hurt!

[William P]

im wondering just how much damage such small flails like the ones i have in this picture, the 5 flail weights on the top row are made of moose antler, so they are not AS dense as bronze or iron.
most are bronze, and about 4 of them are made of iron...
http://club-kaup.narod.ru/rec/arcussr/table131.jpg

though this is a small sample of about 127 flail weights found in russia poland and ukraine that date between the 9th and 13th centuries.

of those, roughly 100 are dated to being between 12th and 13th century.

though one other thing to note is we have very little evidence of how the flails were used, and what their dimensions were in terms of the size of the strap (they used a strap instead of a chain) and how big or small the handle was.

and theres evidence a lot of the bronze ones also had fillings of lead, whhich seems not hard to do, especially if you make the flails through the lost wax casting process. which i think leaves a cavity?