[Tim E. Hemphill]

My son's grandfather recently gave him a family civil war sword (great, great, uncle) and I cannot identify it. The pommel is brass and the grip is ivory (I think) with back to back scallop shells on it. The cross guard is brass with an acorn on each end. There is a scallop shell directly over the blade on each side that I guess helped hold on the scabbard. The blade is straight and etched with one side including an eagle holding arrows over a banner with "e pluribus unum" on the banner. Below the banner is a shield with stars in the field. The scabbard is metal (either steel or nickel) with two carrying loops. It has no manufacturer listed on it that I can find. Any help would be appreciated. I have searched the web and the the closest thing I can find to it is a West Point officers sword. I think it is an officer's sword, as my father in law thinks the uncle was a captain. The acorns should be a giveaway, but I have had no luck.

[Max von Bargen]

Hello Tim, and welcome to the forums!

While I don't know very much about Civil War swords, it would probably be very helpful to those who do if you posted a picture of the sword (if you have one). You did quite a good job of describing it, but I think pictures would help tremendously if you have any available to post.

Good luck with your search!

Max

[Thomas Watt]

Photos would be very helpful.
And I'm interested to see it. It might also be a cadet's sword from another military academy other than USMA. There were several once upon a time.
(edit to add image)
Here is a thumbnail of a West Point cadet's sword...
although this is contemporary, I don't expect they've changed significantly.

[Glen A Cleeton]

Likely either a naval officer's sword or militia infantry or artillery officer's and possibly predating the American Civil War by a decade or more. Both the small scallop shell langets and acorn finials were found with either use. Pictures are worth a thousand words. Is the sword single edged or look more like this one? The grip could also be bone.A grainy look would lean towards it being that. Ivory can almost look as smooth as plastic, as well as having a bit of translucence to it.

Is there a backstrap on the grip and is the pommel in the form of something other than being pretty plain? An eagle's head or whole eagle maybe?

Is it more like the other, with a chain?

Cheers

GC

[Glen A Cleeton]

I'm adding some more here, just in case anything might ring a bell.
Just some hunches.

Cheers

GC

[Tim E. Hemphill]

Thank you for the replies and especially to Glen Cleeton. It is indeed the sword shown in your reply in Figure 71 the Military Officer's sword ca. 1850.

Glen could you give me the title of the reference book you found the sword in? I'd like to have a copy to go with the sword for my son.

Thanks again,
Tim

[Glen A Cleeton]

Hi Tim,

I'm glad we could find a bingo so quickly. I do have to give due credit to some other enthusiasts found posting here and elsewhere. J.G. Hopkins, Alan Quinn and Dmitry Z~G provided images I have used here and they can also be found in this thread elsewhere. Jonathan is responsible for providing the other book plate from an Ames reference title.
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=84171

i was a little rushed earlier but should have provided credit for the photos. The first large image plate is from a title The Medicus Collection by Norm Flayderman and Stuart Mowbray. The plate with text is from a Harold R; Crouch title but I am not certain if it is a 1998 title Edged Weapons or Historic American Swords published in 1999 (I'm pretty sure the 1999 title is the source here). These hilts are also described with somewhat more detail in Harold Peterson's The American Sword 1775-1945. With the sword discussed here being unmarked, it was likely imported, as the one pictured in Peterson is marked to the Ames Mfg Co. Peterson has the most supportive text on the hilt form and lists it in use from 1830 to 1850. i have only the Peterson title but should probably have the others as well. if general interest goes beyond just this example, I would start with the Peterson title. All three titles will be listed in the myArmoury book section here and the Amazon link may have these added to their Look Inside program.

These are fine swords reflecting America's past and I was scrutinizing one quite lustfully at an arms show up here in Hartford last fall.

Cheers

GC

[Tim E. Hemphill]

Thanks Glen,

Could I ask what value they had placed on the sword you saw? I was wondering about the value for insurance purposes. the only difference between my son's sword and the picture in Fig. 81 is that it only has one chain instead of the two pictured.. I don't know if one is missing (although I can find no attachment burrs) or was made with only one.
Thanks again,
Tim

[Glen A Cleeton]

Hi Tim,

I don't mean to sound stand-offish but even proper identification is impossible without good clear pictures. You also indicated the sword you inquire about has brass fittings, thus not as pictured in that text. If you type sword appraisal into an internet search engine, you will get some hits you could follow up on. They will want pictures. Most credible appraisers are going to want a fee. If you don't have a digital camera, you can buy a disposable film camera and have the negatives processed onto a CD and then transefered through your computer. Auction houses likewise would want the object in front of them and/or or detailed pictures.

i'm not sure if these folk are the company that was working an arms show up here in New England
http://historicfirearms.com/ but they (or similar) might be able to direct you to someone local to the sword that can take a closer look. Even your own insurance company may be able to provide reference and many are going to have specific criteria you must follow in order to be properly protected.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help with that perspective of the sword but I am no expert in the market and would certainly not hazard a guess without the sword in hand (or at the very least detailed pictures (and a good deal more inforamtion).

Cheers

GC