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John Cooksey
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 Posted: Sat 23 Feb, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Shayan G wrote: |
| John Cooksey wrote: | For those who don't know, the Sassanians were an ethnically "Persian" dynasty who ousted the Parthian Arsacid dynasty of Iran in the 3rd century AD.
The Sassanians were decent military engineers, and often employed free (or captured) Roman artisans in their state building projects. |
All our evidence indicates they were FAR more than "decent." Roman involvement in construction was largely in terms of slave labor rather than engineering. The Sassanians had 1000 years of Persian architecture at their backs, with thousands more years experience gleaned from their Mesopotamian subjects and various other conquered peoples. They were skilled engineers in their own right.
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I was being modest, on the behalf of my spiritual forbears . . .
I agree---the Sassanians inherited over a millennium of architectural and engineering expertise from the Medes, the Assyrians, the Ionian Greeks, and many other groups . . . .
I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
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Shayan G
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| Posted: Mon 25 Feb, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Oof, sorry again for the late response, a nasty head-cold knocked me out for a few days.
I tried to find it on Google Earth as well, Mr. Carter, but had little luck. I found the region the wall was in, and at times I think I may have actually seen the wall as well, but I was never positive that I had. However, if one searches for the towns of Gomishan, and then Gonbad-e Qabus, you'll get an idea just how long it was. It's absolutely amazing. A veritable road-trip in itself.
And speaking of recent Classical-era Iranian archaeological finds, the biggest Parthian fortress to date has been found on the coast of the Persian Gulf by the Strait of Hormuz!
http://www.payvand.com/news/08/feb/1232.html
Exciting days for Persian archaeology! People used to take these things for granted but as more and more get swallowed up by developers, the 5000 years of history there is finally starting to get the attention it deserves.
Glad you all enjoyed the article!
Best regards,
Shayan
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Scott Eschenbrenner
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| Posted: Mon 25 Feb, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Shayan, out of curiousity (since you hinted at it), where do your ancestors come from? If it's north of that wall I may have visited once.
Thanks for sharing the find with us, I was unaware of anything on its scale in Iran. Very impressive! One thing in the initial article is a bit off - that the Great Wall of China is a thousand years younger. That's true about the current wall, which was built in the 15th century CE by the Ming dynasty. The original one was built in the 3rd century BCE by the Qin dynasty, farther to the north of the current one. I don't have any figures on its length, but I think it was still pretty substantial.
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Randall Moffett
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Shayan G
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| Posted: Tue 26 Feb, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| Scott Eschenbrenner wrote: | Shayan, out of curiousity (since you hinted at it), where do your ancestors come from? If it's north of that wall I may have visited once.
Thanks for sharing the find with us, I was unaware of anything on its scale in Iran. Very impressive! One thing in the initial article is a bit off - that the Great Wall of China is a thousand years younger. That's true about the current wall, which was built in the 15th century CE by the Ming dynasty. The original one was built in the 3rd century BCE by the Qin dynasty, farther to the north of the current one. I don't have any figures on its length, but I think it was still pretty substantial. |
Patrilineally, my ancestors were Central Asian Turkmen nomads until the 14th century, when they migrated to eastern Anatolia/western Iran, finally settling northern Iran. They were definitely the kind of people the Sassanians wanted to keep out!
As to the Great Wall thing, I noticed that too. Although we don't know for certain how long the original Great Wall was, the Qin were certainly skilled engineers as well, I gather--I don't know much about them, but I wouldn't scoff if someone told me they were significantly better even than the Sassanians. I don't think the PDF article (which is different and more scholarly) made the same mistake, I'll double check...
That raises an interesting point--both built the wall to keep out dangerous nomads, but more than that, the two empires actually co-ordinated military expeditions to attack the nomads in their homelands together. They proved formidable allies when it came to exterminating those pesky Huns/Scythians/Turkmen! I'll do more research on that today and see if I can elaborate a bit.
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Scott Eschenbrenner
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| Posted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Wow, I didn't know that about coordination between Persians and Chinese. Especially given communications back then, that must have been some accomplishment!
I've been to Azerbaijan once, so my guess I wasn't too far off!
Randall, the Wiki article is where I saw that too. Actually, I had recalled a blurb at the end of "Hero" where the emperor of Qin is supposed to have begun the wall, and I figured I'd check it out for historical veracity. I tend to trust Wiki on the primary facts, though they can get the details wrong sometimes.
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Shayan G
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| Posted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: |
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I'm searching for that reference. I keep doing this, reading a great JSTOR article, then forgetting what it was called while remembering what it was about!
However, I can say with certainty that both the Parthians and the Sassanians had extensive diplomatic contact and frequent embassies with China, and that on at least one occasion lent each other substantial military assistance against the nomads. One specific instance I remember is reading about a Chinese general commanding an army of Persian cavalry against a nomadic tribe in modern day Afghanistan.
Still searching for the reference though! Sigh. It's fun to read about how open minded the two cultures were, though, so I'm glad I have t review this! Zoroastrian preachers were allowed in China, Chinese intellectuals were frequently employed and greatly respected by the Persians, etc...
You have to be a man, first, before you can be a gentleman!
~the immortal John Wayne
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Scott Eschenbrenner
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| Posted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Alas, I don't have access to JSTOR or I'd be looking too. I guess I'll have to wait until I go back to school...
Diplomatic contact is one thing, I think King Louis IX sent embassies to the Chinese and Armenians for example, but they didn't seem to come to much. Actual cooperation in battle is something else altogether. Definitely very fascinating empires, I didn't know they were that intertwined.
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