[F. Carl Holz]

Neither of the dogs I've owned would do very well in battle I think (one was a springer spaniel, the other a shelty). But there are definitely strong arguments for dogs in actual battle. There are enough stories of loyal companions saving their masters and men who took their dogs to war. However there is also something different too. The best example I know of is that for a very long time the british maintained units of mastiffs. One of these was given to the spanish as a gift once (sorry I can't remember the year). So, if Little Timmy wants to take Lassie into battle, that might not be such a good plan. But if Commander so-and-so plans on taking his unit of 200 professionally trained fighting dogs, well, thats a little different. Given, they're still going to be used for specific purposes, but what standardized unit isn't?(not that "standardized units" actually happened that often before the standardization of equipment, but...)

[Ken Speed]

Carlo,

To paraphrase a saying from an old movie, "Now, thats a dog!" Good Lord! I crack up whenever I look at the picture. What do you bet she named the dog Fluffy? I can see it now. Some poor unsuspecting fool is picking up that young woman for their first date and she says, "Would you like to meet my dog Fluffy?" Those could be the last words the man ever hears!

Thanks for the picture and the laughs,




Ken Speed

[W. R. Reynolds]

Joe Fults,

There was at least one poodle that won military honors. Can't vouch for his haircut though. See Below. In another account he fought off an Austrian soldier trying to capture the colors.


Moustache. "Moustache, a black poodle [born in Normandy in 1799, Der Deutsche Pudel (Munich: The German Poodle Clubs, 1907), summary/translation by HB, 8/'97], the pet of a regiment of French grenadiers, took an active part in the Austrian campaign during the Napoleonic wars. He was present at Marengo and is credited with having detected an Austrian spy and saving a detachment of his company from a surprise attack by the enemy [de Wally states, p. 10, that this latter event occured at Aboukir]. His crowning achievement was at Austerlitz. A young ensign, bearing the regimental colours, mortally wounded and surrounded by the enemy, with a dying effort attempted to save the flag by wrapping it round his body. Moustache went to the rescue; he could do nothing for the young soldier but attempt to recover what he had given his life to save. Dexterously with his teeth and paws he unwound the standard, and, carrying it in his mouth, bore it back in triumph to his own lines. [Philippe de Wailly, a veterinarian, simply states that the dog dashed under fire to the corpse of the unfortunate flagbearer and retrieved the flag.] For this he was awarded a medal for gallantry, and his name was placed on the regimental books as a full-fledged soldier drawing rations and pay. [Henry, pp. 33-4, states that he was entitled to wear a tri-colour collar with a silver medal, engraved on one side: "Moustache, A French dog, a brave fighter entitled to respect," and on the other: "At the Battle of Austerlitz, he had his leg broken while saving the flag of his regiment," and that he was presented to the Emperor Napoleon, for whom he performed varous tricks, including his most famous one, lifting his leg at the mention of the Emperor's enemies.] He followed his battalion when it was ordered to the Peninsula, and at the seige of Badajoz a cannon ball laid him low. His comrades buried him where he fell and put up a stone to his memory with but one word of tribute: "'Brave' Moustache." Ross, pp. 92-3; incidentally, Ross also presents an enjoyable account of Boy (pp. 57-63; illus. opposite p. 64). Hopkins states that Moustache was decorated by Le Maréchal Jean Lannes (1769-1809) on the eve of the Battle of Austerlitz, by which she may mean the evening after the battle. Der Deutsche Pudel: "He was interred...with collar and medal under a modest stone with the simple words 'Ci gît le brave Moustache.' Unfortunately the Spaniards destroyed the stone after the war and on order of the Inquisition the brave dog's bones were burned." For an illustration of this event dating from the 1860s (?), see: Hopkins, p. 280 (de Wally credits a painting of the event to Job). See also Mad. Jeancourt-Galignani, Les Caniches et leur Elevage (Paris: 1958; originally published in 1937), p. 186.

[Elling Polden]

Well, there is no reason poodles can't be brave. They are, however, bred for retrieving downed waterfowl.
The purpose of the silly haircut is to reduce water resistance while keeping the vital organs warm, though the orignal cut would probably have the patches of fur cut shorter than the modern show cut.

The reason for their effete reputation is more due to their modern day owners than the characteristics of the dogs themselves.

(On a side note, there are noumerous illustrations of medevial ladies with lapdogs on their arm.)

[Peter Bosman]

[Lawrence Moran]

Hey...its been a while but I am still around...

Thought I would jump in here as the topic is of personal interest. I am a military policeman currently in Iraq. We do indeed employ dogs on the battle field and in specialized roles. Not so much in a direct combat capacity but in scouting and in explosives detection roles.

A few things about the discussion occur to me though. I don't recall anyone mentioning an important fact. Most, though by no means all, battles where dogs had a combative role were small scale affairs. A few hundred personnel on a side. Even then, they were not typically general melees but rather smaller, more personal affrays. In that sort of setting, I can see dogs being utilized with considerably more effectiveness. In large battles featuring large scale general melees, jean has the right of it...dogs would be more hinderance than help.

As for a man defending himself against a dog...I have been there, done that, and got the scars to prove it. Had an unfortunate dog attack encounter where a dog (oddly enough a large yellow lab, not a breed known for aggressiveness) attack me and my son. The dog lunged at me and my son kicked around me and got his calf almost ripped off for his trouble. At that point, reflex took over. I kicked it rather well and it came back and bit me on the thigh...trying for my groin. The kick bought time to retrieve a folding belt knife and in less time than it takes to think about it, the dog got stabbed in the throat, chest, and head. It withdrew almost immediately. Of course, so did I so I call it a draw. The point is, even an aggressive dog is going to be vulnerable to a man with a weapon and a wilingness to use it. He may well get bit for his trouble but he is going to get some blows in and most dogs are going to withdraw once they get that first injury. The dog that attack me and my son was not battle trained and perhaps a battle trained dog will press the attack in the face of injury...I can't say. But, a man willing to accept the bite...or even better prepared for and protected from the bite...is going to make rather short work of a dog. One last thing...its my experience that most dogs, absent those trained for police work and not even all of those, do not bite and cling to an opponent...they bite, release, bite, release, etc. They can actually get in bites rather quickly. So, a padded arm guard or what have you is not likely to be of a great deal of use. Again, my personal experience and observation is that dogs do not tend to go for the arm per se...they tend to go for the groin or the throat. The arms and legs tend to get bitten when the target interposes them for defence.

As for what dogs I would choose to take into battle where appropriate...any good sized breed or mix. I would want one large enough to be of use against a man-sized opponent, smart enough to train, and preferably with a longer and thicker coat to provide it with a little bit natural protection. I would not employ such a dog in a general melee setting but would find it very useful in specialized scouting/patrolling type work. I forget who mentioned it first but I would probably most likely use that dog in a defensive role in a homestead type setting or in a critical site security capacity.

Just my two cents worth...

[Lawrence Moran]

Hey...its been a while but I am still around...

Thought I would jump in here as the topic is of personal interest. I am a military policeman currently in Iraq. We do indeed employ dogs on the battle field and in specialized roles. Not so much in a direct combat capacity but in scouting and in explosives detection roles.

A few things about the discussion occur to me though. I don't recall anyone mentioning an important fact. Most, though by no means all, battles where dogs had a combative role were small scale affairs. A few hundred personnel on a side. Even then, they were not typically general melees but rather smaller, more personal affrays. In that sort of setting, I can see dogs being utilized with considerably more effectiveness. In large battles featuring large scale general melees, jean has the right of it...dogs would be more hinderance than help.

As for a man defending himself against a dog...I have been there, done that, and got the scars to prove it. Had an unfortunate dog attack encounter where a dog (oddly enough a large yellow lab, not a breed known for aggressiveness) attack me and my son. The dog lunged at me and my son kicked around me and got his calf almost ripped off for his trouble. At that point, reflex took over. I kicked it rather well and it came back and bit me on the thigh...trying for my groin. The kick bought time to retrieve a folding belt knife and in less time than it takes to think about it, the dog got stabbed in the throat, chest, and head. It withdrew almost immediately. Of course, so did I so I call it a draw. The point is, even an aggressive dog is going to be vulnerable to a man with a weapon and a wilingness to use it. He may well get bit for his trouble but he is going to get some blows in and most dogs are going to withdraw once they get that first injury. The dog that attack me and my son was not battle trained and perhaps a battle trained dog will press the attack in the face of injury...I can't say. But, a man willing to accept the bite...or even better prepared for and protected from the bite...is going to make rather short work of a dog. One last thing...its my experience that most dogs, absent those trained for police work and not even all of those, do not bite and cling to an opponent...they bite, release, bite, release, etc. They can actually get in bites rather quickly. So, a padded arm guard or what have you is not likely to be of a great deal of use. Again, my personal experience and observation is that dogs do not tend to go for the arm per se...they tend to go for the groin or the throat. The arms and legs tend to get bitten when the target interposes them for defence.

As for what dogs I would choose to take into battle where appropriate...any good sized breed or mix. I would want one large enough to be of use against a man-sized opponent, smart enough to train, and preferably with a longer and thicker coat to provide it with a little bit natural protection. I would not employ such a dog in a general melee setting but would find it very useful in specialized scouting/patrolling type work. I forget who mentioned it first but I would probably most likely use that dog in a defensive role in a homestead type setting or in a critical site security capacity.

Just my two cents worth...

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Jared Smith]

I knew after reading Jean and Peter's comments that I should have titled this "Dogs you would take to war." I would hate to put all of that training into a great hound, and then waste it against a pike formation or something like that. In a medieval campaign, possibly lasting several years, dogs were certainly a part of the hunting, coursing for sport, and sentry duty. I figure they may have even been taken along for foraging with the possible unexpected skirmish.

Since some here have trained and used dogs for actual police duty, I am wondering what their opinion is on the viability of something like what appeared to be shown in the movie "Gladiator?" I had the impression the war dogs followed the totally fictional character "Maximus", and attacked something they perceived to be his specific target. Meanwhile, they passed up other battles in progress.