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George Sulea
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 8
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 Posted: Tue 02 Mar, 2004 9:55 pm Post subject: Falchions anyone? |
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 G'day folks!
My name's Geo, hailing from Cleveland, and I'm fairly new here. I was hoping to plumb some folks knowledge concerning a blade I'm interested in. Does anyone know where one could aquire a live steel version of a Falchion. I've seen some items advertised, such as the German Falchion in the Museum Replica's catalog, but I have a preference for a usable sword, and the one's I've seen are mostly dull edged. Does anyone out there know of any sources for such things?
Many thanks,
Geo
"The Universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest..."
KIlgore Trout
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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George Sulea
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Tue 02 Mar, 2004 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! That was a fast reply:) Many thanks for the prompt response. I've seen a really great falchion on Jody Samson's site as well, my only problem; having the money to buy such stuff:(
I hope to be able to collect more in the future, but for right now, heck, I can dream:))
Regards,
Geo
PS, got the Oakshott book today, quite a great piece of literature, and I am glad to have it. Thanks again:))
"The Universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest..."
KIlgore Trout
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Markus Haider
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| George Sulea wrote: | Wow! That was a fast reply:) Many thanks for the prompt response. I've seen a really great falchion on Jody Samson's site as well, my only problem; having the money to buy such stuff:(
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There are not many choices aside form MRL's offering left if you don't want to go custom or pay the price for Arms&Armor's excellent piece.
http://www.albionarmorers.com/swords/deltin/dt5131.htm (maybe someone knows more about this)
http://www.lutel.cz/obrazky/11008.jpg Lutel's 11008, albeit Björn said it is too heavy.
If you have the patience, you could wait (and save) for Albion's projected Falchion in Spring 2005.
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Jeff Johnson
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 5:20 am Post subject: |
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A couple of my friends have these:
http://www.armourclass.co.uk/Data/Pages/Medieval_5.htm
Armour Class is one of the best-respected manufacturers. Far more so than MRL with it's crappy indian blades.
Be sure to specify whether you want it sharp, or blunted like the one at the bottom of the pic in the link.
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 6:47 am Post subject: |
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That's my MRL "German Falchion" in the review. It takes a very nice edge. In fact, the edge as shipped could certainly be considered lethal. I've never seen a truly blunt WIndlass item. All of those I've owned needed only a few minutes of file work to be very sharp. As shipped, the point of this falchion is like a needle. I actually filed it down slightly after I let it bite me (and I thought I was being very careful!). My falchion developed a very small hairline crack on the edge several inches from the quillons. The antiquing process (a form of abuse, really) revealed this, but I don't know when or how the crack developed. The intentional rusting may have exacerbated an unoticed production flaw. It certainly wasn't visible with the factory polish on the blade, and in any case doesn't bother me because I'm not doing any serious test cutting with the piece. I'd hesitate to do any, although this crack is only a couple of mm long. I stll consider this replica a great bargain, and one of my favorites. I've heard good things about MRL's Badelaire, too.
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Markus Haider
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| Jeff Johnson wrote: | A couple of my friends have these:
http://www.armourclass.co.uk/Data/Pages/Medieval_5.htm
Armour Class is one of the best-respected manufacturers. Far more so than MRL with it's crappy indian blades.
Be sure to specify whether you want it sharp, or blunted like the one at the bottom of the pic in the link. |
Oh, yes I forgot Armour Class! They are a good value for the money. Well made swords, taking a lot of abuse - even the sharp swords show that they are coming from the reenactment-side.
I own their Mortuary Hilt sword, a very good offering, and judging from it, their Falchions should be well balanced.
Last edited by Markus Haider on Wed 03 Mar, 2004 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 11:41 am Post subject: |
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The DT5131 has been regarded as on of Del Tin's best offerings. I remember Gus Trim giving it very favorable marks.
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 11:55 am Post subject: |
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"Crappy Indian Blades" is a bit short on information and objectivity. Which Windlass blades do you dislike, and why? Why does it matter where their blades are made? Are Indians incapable of producing quality products? I think some MRL/Windlass pieces are reasonably accurate bargains. Others stray too far from historical examples to suit my taste. But let's not say that everything produced by a given manufacturer is junk unless we've carefully reviewed all their products.
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Jeff Johnson
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean Flynt wrote: | | "Crappy Indian Blades" is a bit short on information and objectivity. Which Windlass blades do you dislike, and why? Why does it matter where their blades are made? Are Indians incapable of producing quality products? I think some MRL/Windlass pieces are reasonably accurate bargains. Others stray too far from historical examples to suit my taste. But let's not say that everything produced by a given manufacturer is junk unless we've carefully reviewed all their products. |
Perhaps I'm being a bit elitist, but your own post above indicates a hairline crack in the very model under discussion. Other data I'm basing my opinion on personlly hefting at least a dozen overweight, grind-mark laden, ill-fitted, hilt-cracked windlass products. Numerous anecdotal evidence posted on various fora of similar issues, including rat-tail tangs on broken swords serves to reenforce this. Perhaps not ALL of their products are such, but gambling with getting a decent product that has potentially hazardous failure modes isn't a wise practice. Anyone recall a recent video of a broken katana stabbing a guy?
I fully believe Indian manufacturers are capable of producing good product, but in order to keep costs down for themselves, maximize profits for their vendors and sell large quantities, they choose not to.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff Johnson wrote: | Granted, but your own post above indicates a hairline crack in the very model under discussion. (what a surprise)  Other data I'm basing my opinion on personlly hefting at least a dozen overweight, grind-mark laden, ill-fitted, hilt-cracked windlass products. Numerous anecdotal evidence posted on various fora of similar issues, including rat-tail tangs on broken swords serves to reenforce this. Perhaps not ALL of their products are such, but gambling with getting a decent product that has potentially hazardous failure modes isn't a wise practice. Anyone recall a recent video of a broken katana stabbing a guy?
It matters because in design, material selection, craftsmanship and quality control are of lower standards than the better European & American manufacturers. I fully believe Indian manufacturers are capable of producing good product, but in order to keep costs down for themselves, maximize profits for their vendors and sell large quantities to their undiscerning customers, they choose not to. Therefore, I will continue to apply the term "Crappy". (not to be confused with the tasty fish - "Crappie") |
I think Sean makes a very good point, and I'm going to ask that you consider it again.
The fact that some guy's broken katana on the shopping channel broke has absolutely nothing to do with Windlass. It wasn't a Windlass product, so has no reason to be in this discussion. For the record, none of the several dozen windlass products I've personally owned has ever had a rat-tail tang. Nor am I aware of any models that have one.
Does Windlass make products that can be compared favorably to those of A&A, Albion, Atrim, etc? Of course not. Everything is related to the price point of the product, and these lines are in a completely different bracket for cost, as well as quality. This is logical and nothing to critique.
Though I'm not really the intended target for Windlass/MRL products (they simply don't meet the various criteria I'm looking to collect), I'd say that many of them represent a good value. A good case in point is my Scottish Backsword and matching dagger. These products are worth more than I paid for them. They're not custom quality, or even the same ballpark as A&A or Albion, as an example.. but they're worth more than their asking price. Sounds like a great endorsement to me.
There's been far too many uninformed opinions stated on various online fora that do not relate to the writer's personal experience. The regurgitating of other people's posts simply has limited value, as does the inability to see the big picture and consider all the variables.
For what it's worth, and it's an interesting point, I believe: My own personal opinion, based on my own experience with both products, is that I found the Windlass/MRL pappenheimer a much better product and value than the ArmourClass pappenheimer. Ironic? Yes. In fact, I'd certainly say so.
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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As to the quality of Indian blades -
I was talking to my boss ( who comes from the Punjab) about this subject, and he said that Indians can produce very high quality blades. The quality depends on what the buyer/distributer wants. If a high quality, more expensive sword is desired, they will make it. If the vendor wants something fast and dirty, and mass-produced for substantially less money, they can do that too.
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Jeremiah Swanger
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 1:57 pm Post subject: I'll take a stab as well... |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: | As to the quality of Indian blades -
I was talking to my boss ( who comes from the Punjab) about this subject, and he said that Indians can produce very high quality blades. The quality depends on what the buyer/distributer wants. If a high quality, more expensive sword is desired, they will make it. If the vendor wants something fast and dirty, and mass-produced for substantially less money, they can do that too. |
I'll jump in on this as well. One of the guys I used to work with before I came back to school this past September, was from India, most of his family was still there. When he got wind of my interest in swordsmanship, he took me out to the parking lot a few days afterwards and pulled an authentic Talwar out of his trunk. He got it for just a little over $100 USD, though the exchange rate of Dollars to Rupies(?) was really good (at least from my perspective). The hilt was solid bronze, with the typical disk-like pommel, but the blade was very nice and solid- it didn't have that "whippy" feel that the stuff from Windlass and Deepeeka that I've handled in the past did. The geometry was spot-on, no noticeable grind marks, very nice polish. Very lively-feeling blade, yet still nice and hefty- the way a cavalry sabre should feel.
The Indians and Pakistanis really can make some quality stuff- it's just the cheap stuff that turns the highest profit, if my experiences and conversations are any indication.
"Rhaegar fought nobly.
Rhaegar fought valiantly.
Rhaegar fought honorably.
And Rhaegar died."
- G.R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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The crack in my Windlass falchion bugs me, but the weapon is still a fairly accurate, great-looking replica that cost me $158. I'll again emphasize that, technically, I abused this blade, possibly even compromised it, by intentionally rusting it. (which I wouldn't do to a sword intended for test cutting). No cosmetic or known structural problems with any of the other 6 or 7 Windlass pieces I've owned. As for the general ability of Windlass items to stand up to use, I'll just note that over at www.thearma.org there are numerous photos and videos of the failure--catastrophic and otherwise--of blades by the likes of Del Tin and Raven Armouries. It happens to the best, whether production or custom, and it's worth noting that drool and fingerprints are the toughest test many top-dollar replicas will face. Anybody care to establish the failure threshold for their Vince Evans? Mac?
For what it's worth, here are the top three questions I ask myself when considering a replica:
• Is the replica within the dimensional and design parameters of its historical precedents?
• How do I intend to use the replica?
• Is the price fair in light of the historical accuracy, complexity and finish of the piece?
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Jeff Johnson
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: | [I think Sean makes a very good point, and I'm going to ask that you consider it again.
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I'd already lighted it - apparently while you were responding. 
The broken katana reference was intended to point out the hazards of any sub-standard blade. It's a safety thing.
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George Sulea
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2004 9:18 pm Post subject: I like it here:)) |
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Hey folks, I'm really appreciating all the replies:)
I've heard that Deepeeka blades are a tad flimsy; I've seen their stuff, and although nice, I just don't think I'd like to own any. I have this weird thing about a blade being functional as well as nice. I don't know how many of you folks out there might be with the SCA, but I've heard tell of a smith who goes by the name MadBlade. I know it all sounds dramatic, but from what I'm led to believe, the guy forges blades that can be stuck in the ground and doubled over, only to snap back with perfect form.
I like stuff like that, tough and functional. I've never actually seen any of his work, but the word of mouth I get is decent. That's why the falchion is so interesting to me, functional, tough, and effective, not to mention the Medici and the German designs are even more useful due to the clipped edge...
Okay, enough of me:)
Thanks for all the replies, and I hope I can contribute some useful stuff in the future.
Regards,
Geo
"The Universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest..."
KIlgore Trout
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