[Jerry D]

hi nice meeting everyone.

I have been looking for information on what type of kits (amour and weapons) where used in Southern Italy specifically Sicily in the 1400’s. I know that culturally Sicily has been closer to Greece and Byzantium then Western Europe. The Normans dominated it in the 1060 and then the Holy Roman Empire, then the French. From what I understand during the 1400’s it was controlled by Spain.

Would Sicilians have used a kits that where similar to Spanish, German, Italian or Byzantine? or did they have a mix of all of the above?

thanks for the help

[Gregory J. Liebau]

You have to narrow it down from "the 1400s." The 15th century was one of great evolutionary advances in armour throughout Europe, and most definitely in Italy. The Italian style referred to today as Milanese flourished throughout Europe, specifically in Italy and under influence of local tastes in England and Burgundy, as well as other parts of France, Germany and Spain. Plate in most of Italy would have been more similar to that seen on the continent than that of the Eastern nations. Venetians though, do seem to have picked up a bit of an Oriental feel in some of their armour, and I believe a more composite feel came with many of their standard "harnesses" incorporating more extravagantly decorated (feather-crested) open-faced helms and brigandines than Northern Italians who valued plate. I make this observation based on a broad scope only from a handful of plates I can think of off-hand. I may be being a little too vague in my stating so, in that case.

-Gregory-

[Bruno Giordan]

[Jerry D]

Gregory and Bruno thanks for the replies.

Gregory your right I should narrow it down. The reason I asked about it vaguely is at the moment I am looking for a starting point. My family is of Italian decent, on my mothers side we are Venician and Neapolitan, my father’s side is Sicilian. As a kid I rebelled and didn’t want to know about any of it. As an adult things have changed, now I’m extremely curious.

Lately I’ve been reading about Southern Italy, Sicily, Venice and Byzantium and have come across how closely culturally they are connected. But information is hard to come by.

It is funny thoe, as a child I grew up in a Greek neighborhood in New York. Early on I realized that my family and our neighbors had similar customs. Never really paid much attention to it but always thought it was curious. Now I understand why.

I’ve recently read the John Julius Norwich on Byzantium and Steven Runciman’s The Sicilian Vespers. That and searching the internet.

I came to this interest by accident. I started reading the Norwick books for information on the migration era, and Turks.

Didn’t Venice through most of its history have an Eastern Mediterranean atmosphere? I mean for a good part of its history it was either a Byzantine possession or a special trading partner. After they instigated the sacking of Constantinople most of the monuments went to Venice.

[Jared Smith]

I had the impression that Southern Italy put more of an emphasis on naval war and city militias, hiring specialty forces from other areas for cavalry and land sieges. I'd like to hear an explanation if anyone knows the fine details. If you find the answer, please follow up with it on this post!

It seems like that century includes a wide range of military influence in Sicily; Spanish, Norman-French, and the Italian-Sicilians. The Normans still officially held its crown at the beginning of the 14th century. The region of Spain occupying the fortresses in Sicily at the end of the 15th century was Aragon, which became merged with Castile. Some of that history is nicely summarized here. http://libro.uca.edu/chaytor/achistory.htm

Have you decided what you want to emulate (conscripted soldier class or possibly the occupying knightly class?) You might want to start with studying your target group-soldier/class as it also existed elsewhere at the same time. There is a feature article here on the Italian Renaissance Armies that might be of interest. http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_armies_italy.html There are great Italian statues of Milanese cavalry from this era (look at a couple of the ones of Bartolomeo Colleoni.) Leonardo da Vinci’s II Condottiero (circa 1480) is a bizarre ornate cavalry example!

[Gregory J. Liebau]