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Bruno Giordan
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 Posted: Fri 21 Sep, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean Flynt wrote: | | Michal Plezia wrote: | | I like this sallet..who made it? |
This is an older Patrick Thaden piece (not representative of his current work). I acquired this in trade from our own Bill Grandy. Here's his description and "before" photos:
http://www.myArmoury.com/bill_othr_thad_sallet.html?9
I originally thought I would modify the visor but liked the plain bowl so well that I didn't see any point. I'd like it slightly better if the entire rim were turned, but no matter. It's a classic Italian celata of the late 15th c. and would also look wonderful with the full "Venetian" treatment--velvet covering and gilt copper appliques.
Thaden might not claim the piece these days (especially the visor) but I think the bowl is very elegantly shaped and the bevor is a good match, with clean lines and a crisp falling lame mechanism. This particular form was in use long after the 15th c. As I understand it, the celata ala Vennezianna (sp?) was used as a parade helmet into the 18th c.
These things are all over contemporary artwork, including (looks to me) on St. Francis in Giorgione's famous Castelfranco Altarpiece of ca. 1503. |
The treatments you speak of are much later modifications, so such helms would be representative of non renaissance periods.
yes, they modified old helmets for parade purposes, as well as many fine renaissance close helms were later crudely hacked by blacksmiths into barred gioco del ponte helms.
Celata alla veneziana (adjectives are ever lowercase). this is standard italian, venetian would be different.
Last edited by Bruno Giordan on Sun 23 Sep, 2007 5:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Hisham Gaballa
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Olivier L-Beaulieu
Location: Québec, Canada Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Sun 23 Sep, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Sean,
I make my washers like you said. I take a strip of steel, punch or drill the holes and I cut the washer. After, I file it to smooth the edges. It is a cheap way to do washers and I like the look! For the heat treatment, it is optional but I think that it is historically accurate so I heat them.
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Tue 25 Sep, 2007 7:37 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Bruno Giordan"] | Sean Flynt wrote: |
The treatments you speak of are much later modifications, so such helms would be representative of non renaissance periods.
yes, they modified old helmets for parade purposes, as well as many fine renaissance close helms were later crudely hacked by blacksmiths into barred gioco del ponte helms.
Celata alla veneziana (adjectives are ever lowercase). this is standard italian, venetian would be different. |
I'm referring to the genuine 15th c. fabric and applique treatments rather than the later treatments. Either way, it's not what I want in a helmet because, according to S.A. Pyhrr of the Met, those were for tournament and parade rather than combat. I've never been as interested in fancier pieces, but this particular sallet form looks better than most with that treatment. I'm going to leave mine nice and plain, all business!
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Mon 01 Oct, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: |
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I hit an unforseen problem. I thought I'd just drill my rivet holes with a titanium bit, but that doesn't even scratch the hardened 1050 steel of my sallet. Here's where I fear I've really screwed up--thinking I could take out some of the hardness at the rivet sites, I used a propane torch to heat those areas to blue and let them cool slowly. So, you now know how much I know about metalwork 
I was going to try to find a cobalt or carbide bit today, but after reading about annealing online I'm wondering if need Kryptonite or an explosively formed penetrator to get these holes done after heating the steel to blue.
Help!
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Jason G. Smith
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| Posted: Mon 01 Oct, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean Flynt wrote: | I hit an unforseen problem. I thought I'd just drill my rivet holes with a titanium bit, but that doesn't even scratch the hardened 1050 steel of my sallet. Here's where I fear I've really screwed up--thinking I could take out some of the hardness at the rivet sites, I used a propane torch to heat those areas to blue and let them cool slowly. So, you now know how much I know about metalwork
I was going to try to find a cobalt or carbide bit today, but after reading about annealing online I'm wondering if need Kryptonite or an explosively formed penetrator to get these holes done after heating the steel to blue.
Help! |
Well, as a professional mechanic, I can tell you that cobalt bits will drill through just about anything, but propane torches usually aren't enough to even make a dent when heating, well - anything. Cobalt should be fine. Actually, HSS should be fine as well, just slow your drill speed and use cutting oil to cool the bit. This is where the titanium in titanium bits come sin - it dissipates heat better. Sharpen your drill bits, use oil, and go slow.
Les Maîtres d'Armes
Member of the
Chivalric Fighting Arts Association
... above all, you should feel in your conscience that your quarrel is good and just. - Le Jeu de la Hache
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Sean Flynt
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Jason G. Smith
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| Posted: Tue 02 Oct, 2007 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Sean Flynt wrote: | Thanks for the help! This and advice from others did the trick. Cobalt worked perfectly and now I know that hardened steel isn't wood  Slow and firm is the order of the day. |
Cool - glad to be of service!
Les Maîtres d'Armes
Member of the
Chivalric Fighting Arts Association
... above all, you should feel in your conscience that your quarrel is good and just. - Le Jeu de la Hache
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Mon 31 Mar, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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I'm almost done with this project!
But here's a question for you Italian sallet fans: To blue or not to blue, with gilt rivet heads and a plume holder front-and-center?Is the form too early for that treatment, which I see mostly on late 15th c. sallets? I've seen blued armour in this period, and y'all probably know the blued Italian sallets of ca. 1480, with brass borders and plume holders. What do you figure is the early cutoff date for that treatment? Do you like that look?
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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D. Austin
Industry Professional
Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Mon 31 Mar, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Sean, I must register my vote for blue. I love it. If it were up to me, everything would be that colour. Actually, many pieces would look ridiculous blued but this particular sallet seems perfect to me for that kind of treatment. I can't give you an exact cutoff point for that treatment but I figure that yours just squeezes in.
Looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Darren.
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Sean Flynt
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Sean Flynt
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Tue 24 Jun, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, everybody, for your advice and opinions regarding this very long project! Almost a year in the making, in increments of five minutes here, an hour there. I learned....oh, brother, did I learn. I'm working on an article about this, so for now I'll just post the basic shots. Sorry about the finger smudges! This finish shows every fingerprint, but I think it's worth it to have something both historical and unique.
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-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Dan Dickinson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 24 Jun, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Sean, I just want to congratulate you....that is some fantastic work...and something that you can be very proud of!
Dan
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Tim May
Location: Annapolis, MD Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Tue 24 Jun, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Sean that is fantastic! The blue came out perfectly, and that trim definitely kills the "vader" aspect. Really spectacular work, though each time I see a project of yours I have to really try to get encouraged and not hopeless about my own 
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Greg Mele
Industry Professional
Location: Chicago, IL USA Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 356
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Wed 25 Jun, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Tim May wrote: | | Sean that is fantastic! The blue came out perfectly, and that trim definitely kills the "vader" aspect. Really spectacular work, though each time I see a project of yours I have to really try to get encouraged and not hopeless about my own |
If only I could list for you all the hesitation, pauses for more research, fear of damaging the pieces, experiments, false starts, headaches, backtracking, etc...I'm still compiling all of that for the formal writing on the subject. Suffice it to say that I learned to swim by jumping in the deep end. It all worked out in the end, but I might have drowned.  I'm glad it's over!
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Wed 25 Jun, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Very nice work there Sean. 
I think I should go back to the first post on this and read all the posts to get complete value out of it though.  
These long LONG in time projects are " history " in themselves ! I've been guilty of having a couple of these never ending custom projects myself without having to do any of the work though myself. ( Long waits maybe but no " heavy lifting " ).
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Danny Grigg
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| Posted: Wed 25 Jun, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Sean, nice work, have you got a pic showing yourself in the helmet with the bevor up?
Does it come to the point of your nose or cover your nose to the bridge? Does it obscure your sight in anyway?
Thanks
Danny
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D. Austin
Industry Professional
Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Thu 26 Jun, 2008 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Fantastic Sean.
I've been waiting to see this and am definitely not disappointed. Very impressed.
Darren.
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This is a standard topic
