[Bob Burns]

As many probably know I bought this Del Tin Viking Sword http://www.deltin.net/2103.htm with a weight of 4.3 pounds and about 40 inches overall length with a blade of 33 1/4 by 2 1/16 at the hilt. Well, I wanted some more life in the blade and less of a dead weight feel to it, so I took the plunge risking all and entrusted myself to grinding the blade down on my stationary 30 inch belt sander using 120 grit and I am thrilled with the way it turned out!
While I did do some grinding up to about 5 inches from the hilt, I blended the grind into the midpoint of the blade and then concentrated on the midpoint of the blade to the tip of the blade. I removed quite a bit of steel very evenly on all four edges of the blade being very careful not to have any "dips", grind spots or valleys. Actually, the blade came out real smooth with the thickness tapering gradually down the length of the blade. I even held the blade with the tip near my eye and the hilt lying on the table and looked down the length of the blade on all four edges and the result is an even grind.
Now the fuller fades into the tip of the blade instead of the abrupt end that used to be there. This is the very first time I have ever done any grinding on a sword or any other piece of steel. I will admit it took some courage, a bit of stupidity to be daring enough to do this but the sword came out really nice and now there is some real life in this sword!
Well, I guess if all else fails I can either move to New Glarus or Minneapolis and grind swords!
Now I am going to take my oil stones to it going flat with the four cutting sides, starting with the course then to the fine and then to the good ole reliable sandpaper to put a satin finish on this now lively sword.
In fact this summer I am going to bring this sword to the Renaissance Faire on a Saturday when either Christopher Poor (Owner of Arms & Armor) or Craig Johnson is there and let them have a gander at it and get their professional straight down the pipe judgment on how I did with my first ever sword grinding.

Relieved it came out well and happy!

Bob

[Jean Thibodeau]

Sounds scary as far as keeping bevels strait and crisp and since this is your first attempt I'm assuming that some crossover skills from other kinds of work using this grinder helped a lot with getting it right.

I assume you were careful to not overheat the blade and not ruin the temper ? Hand finishing with the stones I guess is to blend in the finish lengthways along the blade to a period satin or to a mirror finish: Personally I would prefer a finish like Albion or A & A make and avoid overdoing the mirror finish.

Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

[Bob Burns]

Yeah, I was careful not to over heat the steel, moving from one side of the blade to the other then flipping it over and once in a while running lukewarm water over the steel. I also took lot's of pauses as I went along, not just going "gangbusters" at the sanding machine with it.
I have to admit, I do have lot's and lot's of experience with all kinds of sanders back when I was a cabinet maker, you have to be extremely careful when sanding veneers as they are usually only 1/32 in thickness. One pass too many on a powerful sander where the belt is overhead of the piece and you use a flat block to initiate the sanding process to the piece of veneer that is intended for a door, cabinet panel, etc., and you have blown the piece and it's even worse if you were matchboxing door fronts. This is where the wood grain mirrors in two separate pieces, so like if you have two side by side doors on an entertainment center the (cathedrals) "upward pointed woodgrain" match on both doors. If that happens then you have to start over with two new panels and the shop owner is not real happy.
What I did was to allow myself to sort of "feel the steel and be one with it", I also have to credit my instructors during the years I trained in karate and "ground and pound", but especially the karate, in particular when training with weapons.
Although I did OK with the "Bo" I was not too particularly great with it, whereas I did very well with "Nunchukus", even working two nunchukus, one in each hand simultaneously. This kind of concentration helped me a whole lot while working the Del Tin sword blade on the stationary sander. I was very mindful at the amount of pressure I put on the blade, sometimes directly over the steel that was being sanded (wore gloves of course,I'm not "that" stupid ) other times puting pressure on the proximal end of the blade while working the middle to distal portion of the blade on the sander. During the sanding I did get 3 small pits but I sanded them all out, being sure to do the same amount of grinding on the other remaining 2 sides of the cutting edges which were on the opposite side of the blade.
I was also meticulous to lay the four cutting edge sides flat to the sanding belt so as to be exacting with the existing profile, the only area where I free handed this process was on the tip because I wanted to flatten the tip out some while keeping it thicker in the center but more smooth and gradual than the sword was in it's original state.
Like I said though, this did take a certain amount of craziness or insanity on my part to attempt, but then again when I first went back into martial arts (which I can no longer do because of my back), I started out in an ultra hardcore school owned by Keith Hackney (also a former Navy SEAL), a year younger than me but he is also at the top of the food chain, whereas I was at that time at the bottom of the food chain and I was 44 years old. The next oldest student was 30, this was an all male school, because they also taught the "Ground and Pound" that you see in the UFC or PRIDE ultimate combat sports. Now most men at age 44 would have enough common sense not to join that kind of school, but "Oh No, Not Me" and I was always banged up with cuts and bruises. LOL! However, I draw the limits at the thought of Bunji Jumping or jumping out of air planes but the crazier the roller coaster the better! This is kind of off the topic, but it does illustrate a part of my personality and mentality, being that I am "Nuts" enough to attempt certain things and what is crucial for me is that I would like to express that I am Not blowing my own horn or boasting about anything, I am just sharing some things about myself with a touch of self lampooning for the purpose of sharing some laughs.
Although, I was extremely focused as I ground this blade and the tapering of the thickness is very smooth, there is nowhere on the blade that it suddenly becomes thinner, it's a very smooth and constant transition from thicker to thinner!
Of course I ground the blade with the length of the blade to the length of the sanding belt. I just had some kind of inner karma that told me that I could do this, and if worse came to worse I figured I could ship the sword up to Arms & Armor and pay
Christopher Poor or Craig Johnson to fix my screw ups.
I will definitely take the best photos that I am capable of and post the links as soon as I get the sword done. Actually, I think I might take some photos tomorrow so that I can use the daylight.
Well, grinding an expensive Del Tin which are also hard to come by was definitely one of my more "Off the Wall" ideas, but it paid off!
I've always done a good job sharpening my swords and daggers but that's because I was taught by a Master Bullwhip Maker and friend of mine "Joe Wheeler", of whom I was very close friends with when he lived in Chicago from 1992 till 1997.
16, 20, 24 platt bullwhips with kangaroo hide, braiding straight as a laser and smooth as silk, this is another very intricate skill like swordsmithing! His knives were sharper than scalpels! He'd finish them with jewelers rouge!

I wonder what my next Off the Wall Nutsoid Venture will be? LOL! I would not recommend that others likewise without any sword or knife grinding experience make this attempt though!

Sir Robert Burns II

"The Knight of Madness"


Hey, everyone is entitled to laugh themselves sick on this one which is part of my purpose in writing this post. This laugh is on me!

[Bob Burns]

It just occured to me that I've never explained why I was so focused on karate and martial arts. All through my early years I was a skinny kid and got pushed around and bullied a lot, so I decided to change things in my mid teens and studied Kenpo Karate and started weightlifting and I never became that type of person that opressed me as a youngster.
Freshman year I was 5 foot 2 and 97 pounds and by senior year I was 6 foot 1 and 125 pounds, so this was the motivating factor in taking weightlifting and martial arts to the point that I messed up my back through years of insane workouts with weights and all the karate that I did, I guess I went from one extreme to the other.
This hobby came along just a few months after I found out that as far as karate goes, that I was "Finished"! But I love this more than anything in my lifetime. Also, and this is what ties this all in, I really enjoyed grinding my Del Tin Sword to where it has some real life in it and it was a bit of a scary challenge for fear of ruining a fairly expensive sword, but in the end, it turned out really nice.
This gave me a spectrum of understanding (not that I would dare compare myself) of what it is to be a swordsmith and the rich fullfilling enjoyment they must get, all I did was sand down the thickness of a sword blade and that is not remotely
being a swordsmith. Believe me, I am not kidding myself about this, it was something I took a risk at, got lucky and it came out nice and I wanted to share it in the forum, both my experience and the humor involved with the risk I took!

CHEERS

Bob

[Jean Thibodeau]

Bob;

If you have this amount of control grinding this blade you might consider trying to make your own blades and having them heat treated professionally.

Might be worth trying at least ? Maybe start small with a rondel dagger or coustille.

If you got good enough you could expand your collection my making your own or finance buying swords by selling some of your own ?

Hey if you made a nice rondel I might even be tempted to buy it.

In any case the worse that can happen is that you might not like what you made enough to make more, or you might find a new aspect to your passion about swords.

[Bob Burns]

Thank you so much Jean for you very kind compliments, the entirely of the crafts that the various artisans have mastered really does intrigue me! I am referring to the scabbard and hanging system makers as well, people like
Russ Ellis and our fellow forum member who is now making scabbards for Albion. As well as the swordsmiths like
Gus Trim, Peter Johnsson, Patrick Barta, Craig Johnson, Christopher Poor, Eric McHugh, Vince Evans, Jason Dingeline, all the other guys at Albion and Arms & Armor and a host of others. I apologize for not listing everyone's names, but if your swordsmithing you got my Absolute Respect
I meant what I said in another thread talking to another fellow about if I were a wealthy person, I would indeed travel and pay someone like Peter Johnsson, Patrick Barta, Vince Evans etc. and pay them very well to teach me how to be a swordsmith. Then I would go pay Russ Ellis to teach me how to make scabbards, baldricks, belts, etc.
Then of course I would also want to handsomely pay Christian Henry Tobler, Stephen Hand or Bill Grandy to teach me the fine points of swordsmanship. Oh to be wealthy! Yep, I would travel to Australia to learn from Stephen Hand, I sure as hell would indeed, just like I'd travel to Sweden to learn from Peter Johnsson!
However, such not being the case, I could still take some classes from time to time at the various sword gatherings, especialy when they are geographically near me and the thing to do in this area is to start saving money solely for this purpose so that the next time there is such a gathering near me I do not miss out on it

Thanks so much for your kind words Jean!

Bob

Having been in martial arts and having worked in the trades, I have an enormous amount of Respect for these experts and that includes those who's names I did not list!

[Eric Myers]

Pictures please!

[Gary A. Chelette]

Well, nothing ventured, nothing gained. I'd be nutz to try that myself. My grinder has polishing wheels on it to do general polishing, nothing more.

I don't know how many handles I turned for my rondels before I got it the way I wanted, but I did get there. I'm not that patient.

Looking forward to the pics.

[Anders Backlund]

Nice to hear your project was successful, Bob.

You know, I own these two Sikh procession sabers with decent blades yet horrible, useless hilts. I've given serious thought to lengthening the tang of one of them by cutting and filing into the ricasso and then make a hilt for it that isn't made out of complete suck. If I feel bored and brave enough to try it one of these days, I'll let you guys know.

[Bob Burns]

Will do those pictures as soon as I can Eric, you betcha!
Thanks very much Anders, I have a Hanwei Lowlander blade with a snapped of rat tail tang at the proximal weld to the blade. I also have a snapped off tang to the blade of a Cold Steel "Grosse Messer", and it's about time I do something with them and I think that now I will. It's kind of like "a seed has been planted". I have the deluxe Roto Zip, a self standing drill press and a host of woodworking power tools and a DeWalt double 8 inch grinder.<~~~~I sure did Not use this on my Del Tin Sword, the only power tool that I used was a portable stationary power sander that has a 30 inch belt.
To use a stone wheel grinder on a sword? Oh NO! I might be crazy but I ain't stupid! LOL

Well, Grand Master Sensei Chelette, you must have been punched and kicked in the head as many times as I have!
Just kidding you of course Sir! Persistance pays off and you got that Rondel right eventually. It was something like
(perhaps this was just a figure of speech) 10,000 tries before Thomas Edison got the light bulb right and when Someone made a critical statement about his numerous failures, Thomas Edison replied by saying that he had found 10,000 ways that it would not work. I can't imagine that it was in reality that many tries, had to have been a figure of speech.

Thanks For All the Support!

Bob

[Nick B.]

Hey Bob,
Enough with the words, you know what they say , a picture is worth a thousand words. Show us some pictures, let us judge how it came out. We'll be gentle.

[Bob Burns]

Hey Nick, like I said, I'll get the pictures done very soon! I don't think I need to repeat myself, I made myself clear that I would take photos and post the links
Also, unless otherwise told by the management of myArmoury, I will post as I please, you have the option not to read my posts perhaps your sharing humor, if so, no offense taken whatsoever! However, and this is hypothetical and Not directive towards you, nobody shuts me up! Again, this is hypothetical and Not personal, because I believe you are being humorous and if so, hey your post is fine with me, I can definitely take the jokes and that's what I'm going on that your just pulling my chain and I do find humor in that!

Just wanted to clarify a bit of who and what I am.

Bob

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Bob Burns]

Thanks Jean and I do certainly "Welcome" Nicks humor of pulling my chain, I did not take it as an attack though yes the tone was vague as to the intent. Besides, I will Not get into any kind of a bickering debate with anyone in the
myArmoury Forum, because I have too much Respect for this website, it's creator Nathan Robinson, Chad Arnow and Bill Grandy, along with the members of this website as a whole!
And hey, it was funny in the humorous concept of "Hey dude when are you going to shut up and fess up with the photographs" ! Now that to me is hilarious!
Again, thanks Jean, as one of my personal buddies in this website I always invite and appreciate your opinions whether it be a Private Message or a Post!
My days of being jumpy in exploring any posts leaning to the negative, are Over, Finished, Kaput and long since terminated in the quest for character growth which is a large part of any kind of martial art, most certainly inclusive
of the art forms of the sword and the rapier (to me the sword and rapier are symbolic of honor and all the other virtues), both of which I am fascinated as to their intricate finesse, complexity and the fundamentals of their foundations and cornerstones to their particular art form.
All these various styles remarkably their sources or links can be found in the myArmoury Website, which in part is why I initiated the Thread "Why I Like the myArmoury Website."
Thanks again Jean and Thank You "Nick" for sharing some of your humor with me!

May That Special Sword Warm Your Heart and Spirit When You Grasp It In Your Hands!


Bob

[Terry Crain]

Hi Bob,

I am really intrigued by your project on this sword and look forward to the pictures. I own a few del tins myself and I have often thought how much better some of them (not all, but some) would be if just a tad bit lighter, with the blades tweeked, either through edge sharpening or, like you did, a top to bottem bit of filing/sanding etc. along the whole blade.

I'm glad you are happy with the results, sounds like you did a very skillful job of it and it turned out great. I doubt I would have the same outcome if I took a belt sander to one of my swords. I salute you!!!!!

Best regards,

Terry

[Bob Burns]

Hi Terry,

I am truly humbled by your salute to me, this was a most kind thing to say and a gesture that leaves me speechless with a most humbled feeling inside.
The sander that I used is not a "belt sander" per say which use a 24 x 4 to a 21 x 3 belt, this is an economical 30 inch belt that is 4 inches wide, so there is still a rather short flat space. Now the thing one must pay close attention to, because just as with wood, you do not want the steel blade to come into contact with the belt where it meets the rotating cylinder, because this is what will make that all ruining Dip into the blade profile, gotta stay the hell away from the cylinders on the ends at all costs This I was well aware of going into the project, from my years of experience as a cabinet maker some 15 years ago. It is imperative to stay with the Flat of the sander! It's also important to not apply too much pressure, this is not an "elbow grease" situation. This is an even touch on all four angled flat of the blade where it terminates into the edge of the blade, less stock removal at the proximal with and even transition to a gradual increase of stock removal to create a blade that is at it's thinnest profile at the distal portion where it terminates to the point. At least this is the effect that I wanted on my sword, so that it is still a stout blade of powerful authority while being more lively the further you go down the distal 3/5 of the blade.
As I know some swords will have a predominantly evenness to the length of the blade. Which causes the entirety of the blade to be lively.
Wait a minute, what the hell am I doing giving a dissertation on the art of grinding a sword I am shutting up here and now and leaving this to the experts to jump in and explain "IF" they want to express some real knowledge.

Anyway, today's project later on is to take a bunch of photographs of the sword (we have a film Nikon N 75 and a film
Nikon N 80, with several lenses, a tripod and the best flash the had in the store at Wolf Camera which 2 years ago was
$150.00 dollar flash (I only list the price because I don't know how to describe the flash ).

As soon as I get done with the photos I will take the film over to Wolf Camera and get the same day development done, scan s the best photos and post the links in this thread.

I sure appreciate the support of everyone so far who have posted their comments and once again a "Very Special Thank You" to You Terry!!

Most Sincerely!

Bob

[Justin King]

A sharp eye, a steady hand, and a healthy dose of reckless determination will get you going! I have re-ground 3 Del Tin blades so far, welcome to the "Del Tin Weight Watchers Club"!
As you now know you don't need a 1000$ grinder to do some hobbyist sword work. I used a 4 x 36" woodworking sander for several years for this kind of stuff and it worked although it did incur more rapid wear and finally quit on me. For about 100$ bucks I got lots and lots of grinding mileage out of it, and spent this much several times over in belts before it gave up.
The quality of the abrasive makes at least an equal difference in my experience. Horsepower don't mean much if you can't get the belt to cut, this is more obvious with hardened steel than with mild or annealed material. Sharp, fresh abrasive also removes more metal with less heat buildup and so saves you time cooling the blade also.

[Bob Burns]

Hey Justin, Thanks very much for your post and I whole heartedly agree with what you said about the stationary sander which I also have, I bought it about 3 years ago for about $150.00 and it uses 4 inch by 30 inch belts, so I have to be much more careful to keep the blade away from the cylinders on the ends. I also have a $280.00 Porter Cable 4 by 24 belt sander but I would not use that on a sword blade, this I use solely for wood. I've got lot's of wood working power tools, including a table saw that I bought for just over $500.00 some 15 years ago, a free standing drill press, a Bosch 1 3/4 horsepower router and a Porter Cable trim router, a porter cable random sander, etc. etc. Oh, I also have the deluxe
Roto Zip, the more powerful one with the light on it. Bosch Jigsaw, well I guess everyone gets the idea now, I bought these tools between 17 and 10 years ago.
My tools go to my stepson who has not shown me enough interest nor the knightly qualities I was looking for to inherit by medieval collection which includes all my swords, polearms, books, DVDs, etc. My judgment is final on this, instead they are going to my Stepson In-Law to be First Lieutenant Ben Siepel who will be promoted to Captain this coming June, he's just arrived in Jallallabad, Afghanistan commanding a small squadron of rescue helicopters, he flies the big one.
He's from a small farming town in Missouri and did very well at West Point. Iron clad he inherits my collection and he Loves the collection! I am sure he will be amazed what I did to the Del Tin which he has not seen.
Justin, I want to Thank "You" for welcoming me to the "Del Tin Weight Watchers Club" ! That was absolutely hilarious!
OK, I just finished taking photographs of the Del Tin, I will be taking to roll of film over to Wolf Camera in the next hour and will pick them up later this afternoon to evening and will then scan into the computer so I can post links tonight, this is the "plan". The blade is not finished, a slight crease type blemish in the fuller on both sides will be seen but that was done by Del Tin and Ryan Whittlinger "Owner of Kult of Athena" Will in fact Authenticate that fact! He can be emailed at
the following email address: info@kultofathena.com

OK, I have to go outside and play with Rosie (my 91 lb canine athlete amazon golden retriever, who I think is in love with me ). Then Rosie and I are going to take the roll of film to Wolf Camera.

CHEERS!

Bob

[Nick B.]

Hey Bob,
Sorry. I was definitrly joking. Your posts were long so I must have missed the part where you said you would post pictures.I will try not to reply to your posts from now on without reading them totally. I hope you back is feeling better.


Hey Jean,
Thanks for coming to my defence. You are right, you can't always get the tone across in written communication. Now I think I will go mend my wounds. Only kidding.

[Chad Arnow]

Bob,
Sounds like a fun project. Did you remove all the standard Del Tin lacquer on the blade? Del Tin typically coats the whole sword with lacquer/varnish for rust protection. It's possible there's still lacquer on the places on the blade you didn't grind (the 4 or 5 inches by the hilt, for example).

If you don't take it off, it may look funny.