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Michael Beeching





Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 270

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov, 2015 1:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am fairly sure I saw a brief glimpse of a plate showing a "reverse grip" in a documentary Matt Easton promoted on his YouTube channel. I think there may also be a few such images shown in Codex Wallerstein, but I'll have to double-check on the latter. To me, the most likely case for using this technique would be when half-swording from a high ward similar to Ochs. In fact, I think this is exactly what was happening in the plate I mentioned - I'll try to dig up some more information on this when I get home.

There is also a video - you ought to be able to pull it up on YouTube by searching "Chinese longsword" - which covers the use of a reverse grip to close distance against someone using a thrusting polearm. Again, I'll link to this when I can.

*EDITS:

"Back to the Source" - https://youtu.be/mmTi-NGQNh8?t=15m12s
^A respectable documentary for the general audiernce. Not too much in the way of "reverse grip" is covered, but it is discussed.

As per Codex Wallerstein, I'm not really convinced after review. It's quite easy to look over the illuminations and be thrown off by an initial perception, even when reality is quite different.

"Rediscovering the Chinese Long Sword" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR7RlwSGj50
^I think this video demonstrates that good swordsmanship is universal - the reverse-grip part is at the end.


Last edited by Michael Beeching on Tue 17 Nov, 2015 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 335

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov, 2015 2:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Like others have said it works all right with blades up to the size of large daggers, I've even done some experiments with double dagger vs longsword and it isn't hopeless, but it makes less and less sense the longer the blade gets. For one thing it places your hand above your guard which makes you very vulnerable to getting your hands cut off. For another a full sized sword blade is so long you won't be able to get a good angle of attack on an opponent's upper openings.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,698

PostPosted: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 3:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Whoa. This is an old thread and I don't even remember posting it. But anyway, in the eight years since it was last active, I've found several useful examples, and may even be able to point out one of my own -- one of the illustrations for the Scheitelhau from the Glasgow fechtbuch:

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/File:MS_E.1939.65.341_007v.jpg

(No, I don't think it's an illustrator's mistake. It actually works in sparring and the grip-shifting is surprisingly intuitive.)

And like Pieter said, there's no end to depictions of the sword being used one-handed in the icepick grip to stab nonresisting civilians or subdued civilians in European art. I still haven't run across written or pictorial evidence of the sword used to slash one-handed with the long/true edge in the icepick grip (like in video games) in Europe. But elsewhere, I've found it in some Chinese dao and jian forms. Still not quite the videogame stuff (especially since the reverse-grip cut seems to be more commonly used to parry rather than to attack in their own right) but I guess I should be satisfied by that.
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