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Terry Crain




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2007 11:47 am    Post subject: New MRL Two Handed Falchion         Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

Just took a look at Kult of Athena new items and saw some new MRL offering, the most interesting (IMHO) was a "two handed falchion". I am wondering if this example has any basis historically as presented.

As usual, I can't located the new items on the MRL website, which seems to routinely be behind in posting new items.

Blued hilted rapier also looks quite nicely done IMHO.

Anyone got an opinion on the Falchion? Given dimensions listed, may be more of a hand and a half falchion, but maybe I am doing the math wrong. Looks to be about an 8 plus inch handle including pommel.

Wicked nasty looking sword...

Terry Crain
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2007 7:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Terry,
Do you mean this one?



From: http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~5009...lchion.htm

Looks kinda strange but cool. Happy It may be inspired by the Maciejowski Bible or other period works. Off the top of my head, I'm not sure.

Happy

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David Donovan




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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I remember that one caught my eye when I was looking through the catalog. I don't have the catalog handy with the measurements, but if I remember right, it's actually about the same length and weight as MRL's various one-handed falchions, which I thought was kind of odd.
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Terry Crain




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2007 6:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's the one Chad!

I am very curious as to whether this is merely "inspired by" the choppers of manuscript illustrations or actually based on any existing example. I tend to think the former, but it may be historically plausible nonetheless.

Wonder how it handles? Anyone actually checked this out at Kult of Athena? (hint, hint, Bob Burns Cool )

Terry Crain
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Donal Grant

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Bill Duncan




Location: Macon Georgia
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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2007 6:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think they got the Idea for this one from Tinker as well as the movie tristan and isolde. One of the bades had a sword like this.
I am going to the MRL sale this weekend and if they have one I'll give yall a report on if it's a beautiful work of carnage or a well polished boat ancor.
Dunc

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Terry Crain




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2007 7:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Bill,

Very curious on your impressions. Picture looks nice, but in person many MRLs have the wavey grind thing going on, sometimes to a small degree, sometimes to a very noticable distracting degree. With a big surface area on this blade, not sure if that problem will be less or more pronounced.

If this handle does provide enough room for a good two handed grip, should be quite a devastating chopper, assuming you could get in close enough to swing away.

Terry Crain
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Donal Grant

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Bill Duncan




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PostPosted: Sat 19 May, 2007 5:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well I liked it.
Nice balance not a boat anchor simply I would buy one if I could. has the potential to be a devastating cutter.
Dunc



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Terry Crain




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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PostPosted: Sat 19 May, 2007 5:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey thanks so much Duncan! I wasn't expecting a positive impression actually. I thought the balance would be off due to the size/thickness/shape of the blade, but I am pleasantly surprised.

Your picture is great because it shows the scale of the falcion compared to the other swords (BTW, Duncanm what's that one on the end, I don't recognize it, another new offering?). Seeing it next to the others makes it look more impressive and better proportions than the Kult of Athena stand alone pic.

I may have to pick one of these up and try it for myself.

Now the question again becomes, any surviving examples of a similar two handed falcion? If so, I have yet to come across it other than the brands/chopper pics from manuscripts but I don't recall them having crossguard/quillons.

Anyone know if this is historically based? or just a cool idea? A really wicked looking toy...

Terry Crain
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Donal Grant

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Dan Dickinson
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PostPosted: Sat 19 May, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Terry Crain wrote:
(BTW, Duncanm what's that one on the end, I don't recognize it, another new offering?)

It looks like their old Higgins Armoury sword they used to offer....I wonder if they're bringing it back?...I always thought it would make an interesting project piece.
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Korey J. Lavoie




Location: New Hampshire, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 20 May, 2007 8:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can't help but think of it as a Seax rather then a Falchion.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 20 May, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a falchion with more than a single-hand grip:



It's from this thread.

From that same thread, here's a falchion with a similar blade shape:



That thread has a few other good images in it, too.

Here's an image (from here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=927) that shows a two-handed thing of similar blade shape, but different hilt:



There are several similar images in that thread worth checking out.

Happy

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 20 May, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From the last two posted images it looks as if the cutting edge might be on the side opposite than one might think with the MRL a sax or bowie knife: The point being an extension of the back of the sword rather than being on the edge side. Confused Question
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 20 May, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
From the last two posted images it looks as if the cutting edge might be on the side opposite than one might think with the MRL a sax or bowie knife: The point being an extension of the back of the sword rather than being on the edge side. Confused Question


If there were using similar period art and historical examples to the ones posted here, then MRL might have gotten it backwards, since it seems like the fuller on the back edge is usually on the long edge of the blade with the cutting edge on the opposite, shorter side.

Happy

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Korey J. Lavoie




Location: New Hampshire, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 20 May, 2007 10:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
From the last two posted images it looks as if the cutting edge might be on the side opposite than one might think with the MRL a sax or bowie knife: The point being an extension of the back of the sword rather than being on the edge side. Confused Question


Very interesting Jean, what does that remind you of? http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...dian+koras
Looking at that particular example, I now think that you might have been on to something.

From the hundred year war
To the Crimea
With a Lance and a Musket and a Roman Spear
To all of the Men who have stood with no fear
In the Service of the King
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Terry Crain




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 21 May, 2007 7:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad,

Your pictures were terrific. The resemblence to the actual falchion you posted is so close that I wouldn't bet against that being the actual one MRL based it on; however, I agree with your observation regarding the fuller location probably indicating the sharpeded single edge of the historic piece would be on the opposite side from the MRL offering.

Even that being said, I have now seen enough manuscript illustrations to find the MRL edge choice quite acceptable. Seems they were made both ways!

If I had to guess, MRL may have simply decided to go with what most people would expect; perhaps following the historic example would translate into fewer sales? Interesting no one from MRL design or marketing ever (to my knowledge)chimes in on this forum to enlighten anyone. One would think it would be a benefitial endeavor for their sales.

Question for Bill Duncan: How did this sword feel swinging one handed versus two? Does the weight/balance lend itself to either option, or is the two-handed use really the only comfortable way to employment this sword?

Secondly, was the the handle long enough in your opinion for a comfortable two-handed grip?

Any furhter info would be greatly appreciated!

Terry Crain
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PostPosted: Mon 21 May, 2007 7:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Terry Crain wrote:
Any furhter info would be greatly appreciated!

Please see this topic for further discussion of such swords.

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Terry Crain




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 21 May, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Nathan!

If anyone other than Bill Duncan has seen or handled this sword at MRL or Kult of Athena, impressions are welcome and appreciated. I'd love to know if it feels comfortable used in one had as well as two. Chad posted a manuscript picture with what appears to be a similar sword with a longer than single hand grip (perhaps just artist license??) being employed one handed with shield held in the other. Just wondering if that would be an option with this sword.

Terry Crain
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Donal Grant

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Bill Duncan




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PostPosted: Tue 22 May, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Okay now that things are a bit calmer around here I can say a bit more on this blade.
My first impression on this was that it was smaller than I thought it would be but it is a falchion and the are not really known for being long bladed weapons so it should not have surprised me to find this one about the same size if a tad longer than other falchions I have seen the thing that dose make a difference is that it is a two-handed weapon. Because of the tight space that I was in when I saw this blade I was not able to do much with it but what little I did do was satisfying, the blade is very responsive and at half speed it tracked well the only complaint I have is that the steel is thin. This has been the biggest issue that I have with MRL as do many others but time and enough of us bitching about it may change things (I hope.). To the handle and pommel, the grip is leather cord wrapped and is a little slick but this can be fixed with a little sand paper to rough it up some, but the handle fits well in your palm. As to the length of the grip if you have good sized hands they hill be touching when you grab it in a two-handed grip but the pommel is small enough for that you can get a good grip on it if you prefer.
Terry Crain
As I said it is a little cramped in side MRL but what little I did with the sword showed that while it is a two hander it is not unwieldy with a single hand on the grip and it will be a bit tip heavy but hey itís a falchion.
Dunc

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Martin Forrester




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PostPosted: Tue 22 May, 2007 9:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This does look more like a large 1 handed falchion to me. Here is early 16c German evidence for 2 handed messer, which is very similar to Falchion. Also Albion's offerings.

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...eister.htm

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...knecht.htm



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