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Gavin Kisebach
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 Posted: Mon 11 Jun, 2007 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Jean Henri, as always I greatly appreciate your well thought out replies. It is clear that none of these entities are monolithic, and that there will most likely always be lots of room for debate. Perhaps that's one of the best aspects of martial arts in general - infinite variation.
On a separate note, I wanted to mention some of the things that I've learned in the SCA that I think are worth learning, if one is interested in studying medieval combat. Most of these things could be just as well learned in a good reenactment group.
Fighting in a crowd - the first time I fought in a war, I was dismayed when I realized that you can't really swing a sword/axe/club the same way you would in single combat. This should be patently obvious, but it took me a long time to get used to this. Spearwork behind a shieldwall is also vastly more complex than I had imagined. it's not uncommon for your spear to get sucked away if you aren't careful. Sometimes it's difficult to even get a clean thrust through a forest of spears.
The value of cohesion, aka soldiers vs warriors. - the group of guys that I fight with has a few very experienced fighters, but overall we are pretty green. It always amazes me when we are able to fend off much more accomplished, but less organized fighters. Working as a unit is a very rewarding experience, when done well.
Staying in line - there's no better way to get gacked than to take a step or two in front of your line. It takes a lot of drilling and practice to train this out of most people.
Great weapons require great armor - I am convinced that the real expense for a thegn or huscarl that used a longaxe was his hauberk - they are absolutely arrow magnets. Anything but the best armor, and you're a pincushion.
It's not the man in front of you you've got to look out for. It's his buddy. So many people (myself included) get tunnel vision in a melee situation. What you develop over the course of many battles is this kind of peripheral consciousness, where you watch the guy in from of you, the guy next to him, and the guy behind him all at once. Any of them could kill you, and if they are complacent, any of them could be your next target.
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Tue 12 Jun, 2007 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| Gavin Kisebach wrote: | Jean Henri, as always I greatly appreciate your well thought out replies. It is clear that none of these entities are monolithic, and that there will most likely always be lots of room for debate. Perhaps that's one of the best aspects of martial arts in general - infinite variation.
On a separate note, I wanted to mention some of the things that I've learned in the SCA that I think are worth learning, if one is interested in studying medieval combat. Most of these things could be just as well learned in a good reenactment group.
Fighting in a crowd - the first time I fought in a war, I was dismayed when I realized that you can't really swing a sword/axe/club the same way you would in single combat. This should be patently obvious, but it took me a long time to get used to this. Spearwork behind a shieldwall is also vastly more complex than I had imagined. it's not uncommon for your spear to get sucked away if you aren't careful. Sometimes it's difficult to even get a clean thrust through a forest of spears.
The value of cohesion, aka soldiers vs warriors. - the group of guys that I fight with has a few very experienced fighters, but overall we are pretty green. It always amazes me when we are able to fend off much more accomplished, but less organized fighters. Working as a unit is a very rewarding experience, when done well.
Staying in line - there's no better way to get gacked than to take a step or two in front of your line. It takes a lot of drilling and practice to train this out of most people.
Great weapons require great armor - I am convinced that the real expense for a thegn or huscarl that used a longaxe was his hauberk - they are absolutely arrow magnets. Anything but the best armor, and you're a pincushion.
It's not the man in front of you you've got to look out for. It's his buddy. So many people (myself included) get tunnel vision in a melee situation. What you develop over the course of many battles is this kind of peripheral consciousness, where you watch the guy in from of you, the guy next to him, and the guy behind him all at once. Any of them could kill you, and if they are complacent, any of them could be your next target. |
All very good points, I have had some similar experiences on a much smaller scale and learned many of the same lessons. These are precisely the kinds of things re-enactment groups can teach the HEMA community, even as the HEMA community and historians can help the re-enactors have more and more realistic battles. I think it should be a two way street, and lets not forget, HEMA belongs to all of us, it's a legacy of our ancestors which we can use to inform our little soujurns back into earlier times, whether in mass battles or individual combat, or just in a living room reading a book.
J
Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum
Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Tue 12 Jun, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Robin Smith wrote: | Jean, I think the animosity is coming from the HEMA side just as much. Its a two way street. One side comes at the other saying "we have something to teach" without being willing to learn themselves. I know several people who fight in the SCA who have studied I.33 and though alot of it does translate, some simply does not translate. It would be like telling a boxer to study MMA because it'll help him. It might work in the octagon, or in a street fight, but its not gonna help him in the next bout, cause he can't grapple, strike below the belt, etc... But that doesn't mean the boxer is any less a fighter...
Plus many, myself included simply don't really do 13th-16th C. There simply are no surviving manuals from my period (the 11th C), so anything I did would be just as speculative as what is being done now... |
Good points Robin. I know there are some obnoxious people in the HEMA community, trust me. In fact when I said "it's not that anyone is claiming to have a monopoly on any ancient medieval fighting skilz that they have figured out. " I wasn't being entirely accurate. That is true for most HEMA people I deal with, and most of the HEMA people who post here, but there are definately some individuals out there who would like to at least insinuate that they do have some special gift for understanding HEMA, that they, like a Kung Fu Master shrouded in mystery, know secrets nobody else can figure out and that if you want to learn the mysteries of ancient fencing techniques, you simply have to go through them, on bended knee. And buy their book and take their class  . I read a claim like that just the other day from a very famous "Maestro".
It's all ego primarily IMO. And miscommunication. People don't want to feel like their work or their pass-time or their research and experience and learning is being invalidated. From me at least, it's not. I'm very appreciative of anyone who seriously studies our Martial history.
As for I.33, I wish I knew enough about it to comment, I haven't studied it yet and I'm not sure if the interpretations which are out now are 100% on the mark, or at least, I haven't been able to get very far with them. One of the both bad and good things about HEMA is that only a little bit has been translated yet, let alone actually figured out. Thats bad in the sense that it makes it hard to jump in right now with anything other than 15th-16th century rapier, sword and buckler, longsword, staff, messer or dagger... but it's good in the sense that there is lots of good things to come, lots of surprises around the corner. The I.33 stuff is definately going to become clearer and clearer in the near future.
As we have discusssed privately though, I think HEMA could really prove valuable to you guys in what you do. I'm a big fan of the period you like as well. I've read almost all of the sagas, I used to be a sword and shield guy myself, I would love to have you guys come down and help me make a new proper viking shield (the deepka one I ordered is functionally useless though when painted, it will make a nice wall decoration for my sword room) maybe you could also help us organize a couple of small-group fights, we haven't been doing that but our group is getting larger we could benefit from your experience. We would love to show you guys a bit of the basic HEMA stuff, and I bet you would enjoy it more than you realize right now, and would find that it does in fact apply more than you might think. Almost everything you do with longsword and messer translates, to a large extent, to nearly every other weapon.
J
Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum
Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
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Kai Lawson
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| Posted: Thu 26 Aug, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Hello all--
I'm brand new to the forum (as a member, of sorts), but have always found it to be an interesting place for academia and practical discussion; this thread being a great case-in-point. I am looking to get into re-enactment fighting, both single combat and en masse, and am currently building armor for SCA mass events (all metal, leather, canvas and linen--no plastic for me). I have just a few questions--what are some basic techniques (historical or otherwise) that I might encounter in an SCA-style setting, and are their any reliable historic defenses, counters or even attacks designed for a single handed sword that could be applied either against the aforementioned techniques or just in general?
My understanding of proper techniques is obviously sadly lacking
Thanks to any who respond!
--Kai
"And they crossed swords."
--William Goldman, alias S. Morgenstern
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Scott Hrouda
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| Posted: Thu 26 Aug, 2010 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome Kai!
Have you hooked up with the Madison SCA folks yet? They have a well established group, Jararvellir, and host several fun events every year. Check them out if you haven't already.
...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Kai Lawson
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| Posted: Fri 27 Aug, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Hey thanks!--I had kind of perused the local SCA listings, but didn't really commit my self yet.
An old professor of mine is/was a local contact, so I think I will try the link and also try to talk to him
"And they crossed swords."
--William Goldman, alias S. Morgenstern
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Steve Fitch
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| Posted: Tue 26 Oct, 2010 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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As for the case for "authentication" of the Heavy fighting...
Can someone please direct me to the historic manuals and/or documents?
I have been practicing rapier for over a year and have dozens of authentic historical manuals (Western Martial Arts) to research from. I find the prejudice against (authentic fighting) rapier confusing.
I have only seen one group try out a theory using I33 methods with the viking sword and shield. That said, this is still NOT what the SCA Heavy guys practice.
I hope not to ruffle feathers but lets be honest.
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional
Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 296
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Steve Fitch
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| Posted: Tue 26 Oct, 2010 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Augusto Boer Bront wrote: | Simple: absolutely not.
Even western martial arts like Fiore dei Liberi aren't (because there are just duelling manuscipts), but sca is definitley not realistic. |
I am sorry, I think I am not reading your comment correctly...
Firoe dei Liberi and WMA are not realistic because they are duelling manuscripts? Meaning because they teach you how to fight...(like the way eastern martial arts do?) I think you are confused.
WMA manuals are authentic forms of fighting. They were practiced and proven in real life. These masters just didn't sit around making up moves and drawing pics of moves.
No offense to my SCA friends, although the heavy looks like good fun, it is far from realism at all.
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Scott Hrouda
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| Posted: Tue 26 Oct, 2010 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve Fitch wrote: | | No offense to my SCA friends, although the heavy looks like good fun, it is far from realism at all. |
Welcome Steve! I am a longtime "SCA heavy" practitioner (addict) and you are correct in that it has realism flaws, but it's fun as heck. 
For clarification, there is more than one game within the SCA:
"SCA Heavy" armoured combatants utilize rattan clubs to knock each other about.
SCA Rapier is a completely separate activity that uses steel weapons.
Some SCA groups are experimenting with steel weapon cut & thrust fighting. Still not quite WMA, but getting closer.
Some SCA regions are experimenting with balsa tipped jousting (I wish I had a horse!).
There's a little of everything for everyone.
...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Steve Fitch
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| Posted: Tue 26 Oct, 2010 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott Hrouda wrote: | | Steve Fitch wrote: | | No offense to my SCA friends, although the heavy looks like good fun, it is far from realism at all. |
Welcome Steve! I am a longtime "SCA heavy" practitioner (addict) and you are correct in that it has realism flaws, but it's fun as heck.
For clarification, there is more than one game within the SCA:
"SCA Heavy" armoured combatants utilize rattan clubs to knock each other about.
SCA Rapier is a completely separate activity that uses steel weapons.
Some SCA groups are experimenting with steel weapon cut & thrust fighting. Still not quite WMA, but getting closer.
Some SCA regions are experimenting with balsa tipped jousting (I wish I had a horse!).
There's a little of everything for everyone. |
Hi Scott!
I agree! It looks very fun.
I practice rapier in the SCA. I can't wait until longsword gets its place, but as I am told by more experienced SCA members "it won't happen", Why? Because not everyone has the skill for it and therefore it will be pushed aside. (another authentic art)
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional
Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 296
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Kel Rekuta
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| Posted: Wed 27 Oct, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Augusto Boer Bront wrote: | I ws saying only that the Flos Duellatorum isnt a battle manuscrpipt, but only a duelling one.
We don't know how the medieval soldiers fought in a battle, but only on duels. |
Nonsense - Read the prologue. Fighting is fighting regardless of whether it is in duel, battle or civil disturbance. The concepts he presents relate to any form of self defense or personal combat. If you want to understand how medieval commanders conceived strategies for battles and campaigns - read Vegetius. That's what Fiore's contemporaries did.
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Sean Manning
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| Posted: Wed 27 Oct, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Augusto Boer Bront wrote: | I ws saying only that the Flos Duellatorum isnt a battle manuscrpipt, but only a duelling one.
We don't know how the medieval soldiers fought in a battle, but only on duels. |
That is true to a point, but keep in mind that a lot of fights in medieval warfare had a handful or a few score men on each side. War was not just about massed ranks and big set piece battles in the open. And that its not obvious from our sources that medieval gentlemen trained to fight on foot in dense formations (except by holding meles). Although Fiore's prologues do tell us that he teaches how to survive lethal combat in general, if you look at the body of the work his focus is clearly on formal single combat and assault survival. Students would have taken that training and adapted it to other situations.
Some of the Bolognese and German spear material might be useful in a phalanx. The swirly spear in Fiore and some of the German sources would be less so.
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Jean-Carle Hudon
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| Posted: Wed 27 Oct, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: techique vs tactics |
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Vegetius ? Military tactics is one thing, fighting on the level of the individual, whether in a one on one or a melé setting, is another thing alltogether, and techniques which may seem extraordinary in a one on one confrontation might seem less so in a gang rumble. One thing for sure, the more you know about all different techniques available will allow for better choices when in need.
Bon coeur et bon bras
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Bill Tsafa
Location: Brooklyn, NY Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Fri 29 Oct, 2010 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve Fitch wrote: | | Scott Hrouda wrote: | | Steve Fitch wrote: | | No offense to my SCA friends, although the heavy looks like good fun, it is far from realism at all. |
Welcome Steve! I am a longtime "SCA heavy" practitioner (addict) and you are correct in that it has realism flaws, but it's fun as heck.
For clarification, there is more than one game within the SCA:
"SCA Heavy" armoured combatants utilize rattan clubs to knock each other about.
SCA Rapier is a completely separate activity that uses steel weapons.
Some SCA groups are experimenting with steel weapon cut & thrust fighting. Still not quite WMA, but getting closer.
Some SCA regions are experimenting with balsa tipped jousting (I wish I had a horse!).
There's a little of everything for everyone. |
Hi Scott!
I agree! It looks very fun.
I practice rapier in the SCA. I can't wait until longsword gets its place, but as I am told by more experienced SCA members "it won't happen", Why? Because not everyone has the skill for it and therefore it will be pushed aside. (another authentic art) |
Longsword can be used in "cut and thrust" which is unarmored combat with steel bladed. This has not caught on in all kingdoms yet. The calibration is for touch kills.
In armored combat with rattan we are all assumed to be in mail armor with nasal helms (regardless of what is actually worn) and the power of the blows is calibrated for mail. There is some variation from kingdom to kingdom as far a as how hard a blow must be to break bone through mail. In the East and West coast its full power. Great sword tournaments are common and you can usually find people to fight this style against at most practices. You can practice longsword techniques there in combat situations and they work fine.
The concept of realism was mentioned... I suppose it means different things to different people. Medieval nobles in the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries generally traveled in mail. They lived in mail and any blows against them would have to be calibrated for mail. So to me... there is no realism without enough power and speed to do harm through mail. Real pain from hard blows helps keep it real as people really do not want to get hit. The only element that is usually omitted in SCA armored combat is, all out grappling... but there are exceptions within the SCA for this too. The following video is of the annual TuChux tournament at Pennsic that allows for full grappling, full body targeting, punching and kicking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s56IVr0fgLc
I fought in that tournament for the last two years. At 4:06, I force a submission by ripping someones helmet off in grappling. A real dirty trick that leaves a person vulnerable in real combat. Any subsequent punch to the head with a steel gauntlet could be fatal. There are very few tournaments out there that allow for full power strikes with weapons and full submission grappling with kicks and punches. There are other tournaments in the SCA that include armor as worn. They tend to be by invitation only, because nobody wants to see a grown man cry over a few bruises. In the past I have heard a lot of people talk about realism... They talk the talk... but few walk the walk.
No athlete/youth can fight tenaciously who has never received any blows: he must see his blood flow and hear his teeth crack... then he will be ready for battle.
Roger of Hoveden, 1174-1201
www.poconoshooting.com
www.poconogym.com
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P. Cha
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| Posted: Fri 29 Oct, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Tsafa wrote: | In armored combat with rattan we are all assumed to be in mail armor with nasal helms (regardless of what is actually worn) and the power of the blows is calibrated for mail. There is some variation from kingdom to kingdom as far a as how hard a blow must be to break bone through mail. In the East and West coast its full power. Great sword tournaments are common and you can usually find people to fight this style against at most practices. You can practice longsword techniques there in combat situations and they work fine.
The concept of realism was mentioned... I suppose it means different things to different people. Medieval nobles in the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries generally traveled in mail. They lived in mail and any blows against them would have to be calibrated for mail. So to me... there is no realism without enough power and speed to do harm through mail. Real pain from hard blows helps keep it real as people really do not want to get hit. The only element that is usually omitted in SCA armored combat is, all out grappling... but there are exceptions within the SCA for this too. The following video is of the annual TuChux tournament at Pennsic that allows for full grappling, full body targeting, punching and kicking.
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Okay some issues with this. The SCA combat is calibrated so that you can get hit in the arm, with NO armor on and it won't break your bone. If you can't cut through the chain, your sword won't be doing much more damage then a rattan sword after all. The idea that the techniques we use in the SCA can overcome chain armor with a sword is ludicrious. With a mace or warhammer yeah, it'll work well. WIth an axe...maybe. But with a sword, no it's just not gonna happen. The only thing that will work is a stab to the face since the other lightly armored targets of hand and lower legs aren't even valid targets in the SCA. Didn't we already go through this?!?
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Sean Manning
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| Posted: Fri 29 Oct, 2010 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Tsafa wrote: | In armored combat with rattan we are all assumed to be in mail armor with nasal helms (regardless of what is actually worn) and the power of the blows is calibrated for mail. There is some variation from kingdom to kingdom as far a as how hard a blow must be to break bone through mail. In the East and West coast its full power. Great sword tournaments are common and you can usually find people to fight this style against at most practices. You can practice longsword techniques there in combat situations and they work fine.
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Hi Bill,
I've never understood that. I mean, if what counts as a hit in the SCA was really based on the ability to cripple someone in haubergeon and open-faced helmet, wouldn't cuts be useless except to the spots without mail? If SCA blows were enough to reliably break bones through mail, wouldn't the people who fight in mail suffer a broken bone every few weeks? I don't think a rattan sword is much worse at bludgeoning than a sharp sword ... good SCA fighters can do tremendous damage to armour.
Also, was there a major change in calibration as people realized that rivited mail and medieval helmets are basically proof against sword cuts? Its my understanding that the rules of SCA combat are quite traditional.
I agree that the rough culture of SCA fighting is a kind of realism. Medieval soldiers liked beating each other up, and weren't a lot like gentle middle-class westerners today. I've never tried SCA heavy fighting, but I respect those who are good at it, because they can do impressive things.
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Bill Tsafa
Location: Brooklyn, NY Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Fri 29 Oct, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean Manning wrote: | | Bill Tsafa wrote: | In armored combat with rattan we are all assumed to be in mail armor with nasal helms (regardless of what is actually worn) and the power of the blows is calibrated for mail. There is some variation from kingdom to kingdom as far a as how hard a blow must be to break bone through mail. In the East and West coast its full power. Great sword tournaments are common and you can usually find people to fight this style against at most practices. You can practice longsword techniques there in combat situations and they work fine.
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Hi Bill,
I've never understood that. I mean, if what counts as a hit in the SCA was really based on the ability to cripple someone in haubergeon and open-faced helmet, wouldn't cuts be useless except to the spots without mail? If SCA blows were enough to reliably break bones through mail, wouldn't the people who fight in mail suffer a broken bone every few weeks? I don't think a rattan sword is much worse at bludgeoning than a sharp sword ... good SCA fighters can do tremendous damage to armour. |
Hi Sean. There is a few guys in the SCA that use mail.... most don't because of the bruising. I tried it myself. One good hard shot to the shoulder will make most people drop their sword. That is with rattan, which flexes to absorb the blow and is at least an inch and quarter wide so it spreads out the impact of the blow. The same blow concentrated on the edge of a sword can break bone by transferring the force on a concentrated spot through the mail (without cutting the mail). A lot of people are not familiar with the properties of the rattan swords we use so I created this video a while ago to demonstrate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIBj9vwjytU
Now here is another video to demonstrate just how much power can be generated even with a flexible rattan sword with the use of good body mechanics. See the end of the video. Also notice that I am fighting as a lefty when I am really a righty. I can generate a lot more power with my right hand against another righty because I can position my hips better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI0-ceBCxJk
I was having some issues initially with a new sword I was trying out. I was not happy and went back to my old one. I did not realize how much frustration I had built up and I let it all out on my poor buddy in the third pass. Our helmets weigh about 8 lbs, so the mass absorbs a good deal of the blow. The historical nasal helm, that we are all assumed to be in, would weigh no more then 2 lbs.
The mail still provided good protection in the 10th through 13th century. It protected from incidental cuts in combat as blades were thrown around. It forced your opponent to strike with force, rather then just make quick flick of the wrist cut. The mail also protected you from the armor of the other people around you who are rubbing against you. Something that people in the SCA who show a lot of skin realize quickly through practical combat.
People did suffer from broken bones in combat, but broken bones are much easier to treat then deep cut or thrust into the body. Infection was the greatest killer in any army prior to antibiotics.
| Quote: |
Also, was there a major change in calibration as people realized that rivited mail and medieval helmets are basically proof against sword cuts? Its my understanding that the rules of SCA combat are quite traditional. |
There is some variation throughout the SCA in hitting calibration. In the southern states they tend to hit a bit lighter. In the East and West Cost, we hit with full power. In the SCA we stop after the first good blow is acknowledged. In real combat, that first good blow would only serve to stun and opponent and then you would follow up with continuous blows. It is debatable to what point though.... Medieval nobles made living capturing and ransoming other nobles in battle. There was little incentive to actually kill a noble. A dead man is worth nothing. Most of the killing was likely of people who could not afford good armor. To some extent, nice armor was "don't kill me, I have money" sign.
| Quote: | | I agree that the rough culture of SCA fighting is a kind of realism. Medieval soldiers liked beating each other up, and weren't a lot like gentle middle-class westerners today. I've never tried SCA heavy fighting, but I respect those who are good at it, because they can do impressive things. |
Medieval nobles were mostly illiterate thugs... brutal gangsters. Because they could not read, they kept clerics around. The concepts of chivalry did not fully develop until the late 14th and 15th century. Chivalry was first promoted by the clergy as a means of protecting themselves from brutal nobles who often attacked them. It further developed into a code between nobles regarding on how they should treat each other in combat. It further reinforced the idea of ransoming nobles rather then killing them.
I'll be back Monday to discus further.
No athlete/youth can fight tenaciously who has never received any blows: he must see his blood flow and hear his teeth crack... then he will be ready for battle.
Roger of Hoveden, 1174-1201
www.poconoshooting.com
www.poconogym.com
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Tom Kinder
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| Posted: Sat 30 Oct, 2010 3:45 am Post subject: |
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On the subject of wrap shots, I can speak with some authority so far as their modern application.
I am an SCA fighter albeit an out of shape one that has done little fighting in recent years. I use the wrap less often than most SCA fighters but I feel it can be a viable blow.
to the gentleman who doubts it could cut anything, I assure you I have cut completely through full rolls of tatami as well as sticks of bamboo with a wrap. there's even video of it up somewhere I think though I can't dig it up just now because I am out to sea and cannot access much of the web.
being a member of the US Coast Guard and of the SCA both for about the past 20 years means I have fought in a great variety of SCA groups and areas and I can tell you the experience from one group to another and from one region to another varies WILDLY. skill levels, historical viability, speed, power levels, armor trends, and much more are all very changeable from one place to another. unfortunately, a lot of the smaller SCA groups are years and years behind some of the larger groups. I always wonder if people who have only brushed up against the SCA have seen the bad groups or the good ones.
when I get home in December I will try to dig up some video to support my claims and once I get my next shipment of tatami in I will make it a point to post a new video of cutting with the wrap.
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