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Bennison N




Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 416

PostPosted: Wed 03 Aug, 2011 3:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob Burns wrote:
I have only expounded on Chinese swordsmanship because there is from what I have seen, so little information on this unique and deadly art...


A lot of the time, Chinese schools don't like to share their stuff with others. In the Chinese language there is obviously a lot more available resources, but it really does require a decent teacher to learn a physical skill like Daofa. For a number of years now, I've found that I prefer the Dao to the Jian, so I'm glad it's getting some airtime on this comparison thread. Plus, I'd like to know more about Messers and Falchions.

Bob Burns wrote:
I have found nothing on the. "Willowleaf" sword from the Song Dynasty... I have found no information on how my "Song Sword" was used but I have a pretty good idea.


Well, I can maybe help with this... Probably the most eminent figure of the Song Dynasty Martial Arts scene was General Yue Fei. He fought the against the armies of what eventually became the Jin Dynasty, apparently never losing a battle. When the JIn rose to power due to schemes and treachery, Yue Fei was jailed on a trumped up treason charge and secretly murdered in his cell. Later on, he was considered the epitome of a loyal soldier, and a tomb and various monuments to him were erected across China.

Anyway... Enough background... The reason I mention him is because he is contemporary to the period you wish to know about, and he is a great martial artist, credited with some quite impressive achievements... Particularly, in my opinion, in training his armies for battle. He is said to have developed the Xing Yi internal style of boxing for his officers, and the Eagle Claw system for his enlisted troops. These are both extremely effective martial arts.

These are both military systems then, and the sword for which they would have been intended would have been the standard military sword of the time. This would have been a Dao. So for a historical system in the use of the Song Dynasty Dao, I would recommend older Eagle Claw Dao forms. I say to try that one of the two, as I have studied Xing Yi boxing for a number of years, and I've come to know that even for the Jian form, fundamental movements appear to be based around the theory for the Spear.

So I would say that the perfect form for you, Bob, is the Eagle Claw Liuyedao. Your sword is of the Willow Leaf pattern, therefore is a "Liuyedao (Liu He Dao)". This should help you find something online. I know there is some stuff on YouTube. I know that the Eagle Claw school has a interpretation of the "Six Harmonies Saber" Form (this is maybe early intermediate level Daofa), so maybe start there?

The Eagle Claw system is popular, so there will be books and videos out there for sure as well. I've never learnt Eagle Claw myself other than closely watching others do their forms, so I can't really help in any way other than to say that that seems to be the best one to start looking into historical use of a Song Dynasty Dao. Big Grin

"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" - Confucius

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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,524

PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2011 8:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38sVdx7nzhQ Langes Messer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38sVdx7nzhQ Messer Techniques from Talhoffer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38sVdx7nzhQ Correction to "Messer Techniques from Talhoffer"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rekdqTXy8PE&feature=related Katana vs Langes Messer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhBiCQ7cpgU&feature=related Langes Messer vs Saber (european) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmq_Oc7RT48 Agilitas.tv Ausschnitte aus der DVD Langes Messer Teil 1
the last one is worth wrting down because it appears t be an instructional dvd, on messer combat. (theres close to nothing on the falchion though the messer is so similar it doesnt make a whole lot of difference.
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