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Rodolfo Martínez
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 Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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hello guys, i was digging around and i find this XIII century altarpiece image, showing somekind of man-at-arms with a shield and what it seems to ba a bastard sword.
And some bloody images...
P.D.
Do you know who is the guy with the ¨Papal helm¨?
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Here is the guy with the ¨papal helm¨
¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
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Rod Walker
Location: NSW, Australia. Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Jared Smith wrote: |
I don't know many people who can withstand repeated head on collision with an inflexible object at a net speed of 30 to 40 mph. My suspicion is that the lances had more give, and were somewhat specialized for the application compared to a typical foot spear. It could be that they were allowed to slip through the couch to a degree, but abrupt shattering and hard impact is precisely how period texts (epics, poems, eye witness accounts) glamorized lance impact in the surviving literature of the early 13th century. |
I am running really late at the moment so I will just post the link here to my YouTube page so you can have a look at some joust passes using solid lances and breakable lances. Yes, I am in later period plate harness in most of these.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RodericValcerre
This clip I am wearing just late 13thC harness. Rivetted mail over padding with a barrel helm. Lances are breakable, but as you can see in the other clips they still hit like a hammer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MikdTK8ykVU
I'll pop back later this weekend with my experiences using solid lances in 12-13thC style mounted tournaments.
Cheers
Rod
Jouster
www.jousting.com.au
"Come! Let us lay a lance in rest,
And tilt at windmills under a wild sky!
For who would live so petty and unblessed
That dare not tilt at something, ere he die?"
--Errantry, John Galsworthy
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Fri 13 Jun, 2008 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: | hello guys, i was digging around and i find this XIII century altarpiece image, showing somekind of man-at-arms with a shield and what it seems to ba a bastard sword.
And some bloody images... |
The second image doesn't seem to be 13th-century at all--the armor is definitely 15th-century in provenance. Is there an implied off-topic remark in it?
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Fri 13 Jun, 2008 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| Lafayette C Curtis wrote: | | Rodolfo Martínez wrote: | hello guys, i was digging around and i find this XIII century altarpiece image, showing somekind of man-at-arms with a shield and what it seems to ba a bastard sword.
And some bloody images... |
The second image doesn't seem to be 13th-century at all--the armor is definitely 15th-century in provenance. Is there an implied off-topic remark in it? |
I think he said that the first picture is 13th century. Other pictures are "bloody"  .
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Elling Polden
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| Posted: Fri 13 Jun, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
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The guy with the bishop's hat on top of his helmet is an actual bishop.
In germany, it was common to grant fiefs to bishops or abbots, turning them into socalled Minsteriales.
This was one of the reasons for the conflict between the germans and the pope.
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Rodolfo Martínez
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| Posted: Fri 13 Jun, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Hello guys!
Do you know if they used any kind of steel crest with the shape of a bishop´s hat?
¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
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Jared Smith
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| Posted: Sat 14 Jun, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Rod Walker wrote: |
Lances are breakable, but as you can see in the other clips they still hit like a hammer. |
A couple of the falls/ unhorsings really did look like the poor knight ran into a brick wall. Impressive, and hats off to you for being able to endure that sort of beating.
That said, one of the longer clips showed someone picking out a lance, and there appeared to be considerable flex in my opinion, a good thing for safety. An aged and seasoned wood (like an axe handle, or what I would want in a foot spear) tends to be more rigid. I would guess the lances are tapered along the last fourth of their length or so near the tip? It seems like a good compromise location for it to break (not in the opponent's face, not in the wielder's armpit either.) Anyhow, this is how it looks blunt. With sharpened needle like tips(some heads survive from early 13th century era, and could be sharp awl like points), that looks like more force than would be required to achieve wounds! Whatever the real way was, your re-enactment looks pretty spectacular when those lances shatter.
Jared
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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