Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Migration / Early Medieval armor transition question Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page Previous  1, 2 
Author Message
Steven H




Location: Boston
Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 545

PostPosted: Sat 17 Mar, 2007 12:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ville Vinje wrote:
Quote:


The chances of getting injured by a sword on a battlefield is extremely low compared to spears and arrows. A nasal has little effect against these attacks.


That is a weird claim. What proof do you have for this claim? Sure, nasal does not make that much different but it does not make much trouble either.

Are you sure about this?


Two things:
1) Swords are not the primary weapons. Spears, bows, javelins, lances and such are the primary weapons of warfare in this era.

2) Most bodies found of those killed in battle from this era appear to have been killed by missile weapons.

Therefore swords didn't kill many people on the battlefield.

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Sat 17 Mar, 2007 1:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steven H wrote:


Two things:
1) Swords are not the primary weapons. Spears, bows, javelins, lances and such are the primary weapons of warfare in this era.

2) Most bodies found of those killed in battle from this era appear to have been killed by missile weapons.

Therefore swords didn't kill many people on the battlefield.


Which IMO is probably the reason why mail coifs or aventails were seen as more useful than cheek-plates.
View user's profile Send private message
Gene Green





Joined: 13 Mar 2007

Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sat 17 Mar, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hisham Gaballa wrote:
Steven H wrote:


Two things:
1) Swords are not the primary weapons. Spears, bows, javelins, lances and such are the primary weapons of warfare in this era.

2) Most bodies found of those killed in battle from this era appear to have been killed by missile weapons.

Therefore swords didn't kill many people on the battlefield.


Which IMO is probably the reason why mail coifs or aventails were seen as more useful than cheek-plates.


Thanks, this makes sense.

However my original question was more broad. It seems the consensus here is, that sometime after fall of Rome the armor became less common but the quality did not drop.
View user's profile Send private message
Michael Douglas





Joined: 03 Feb 2007

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun 18 Mar, 2007 3:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I completely agree that the primary weapons of warfare are the spear and the arrow
and consequently the most efficient armours would deal most effectively with
these threats. But efficiency often took a back seat to fashion in my opinion ...

On another slant ;
When looking at helmets especially we can see that archaeological finds
from the sixth century to the tenth mostly comprise grave-robbings of aristocrats
(Vendel, Valsgarde, Tune, Sutton-Hoo, Broa, Gjermunbu, StSeverin, Frankish graves)
or at the very least high-ranking professional warriors ...
Late-Roman-period helmet finds (let's say fifth century and back)are often also
high-class but do include poorer evidence from excavations of forts and camps.
In this regard the trend in actual FINDS has been from poorer quality upwards ...
rather contrary to the outdated assumption of degeneration from Roman eras.
(Also, segmented Roman armour can be a real b*tch doing anything very athletic
like fighting or ...riding a horse. Forget that for me! Ringmail is so much nicer.)

So I'm saying that quality may have improved, it certainly did not decline from
late-Roman to early Viking-period.

I'm also NOT saying quantity declined, I am afraid I haven't seen much evidence for
this. What I have seen is belief that because all the Roman soldiers are supposed
to have been fully armoured, and because later armies are supposed to have been
only partially equipped with armour then armour quantity must have declined.
I'd say maybe yes maybe not, ...
View user's profile
Mikael Ranelius




Location: Sweden
Joined: 06 Mar 2007

Posts: 252

PostPosted: Sun 18 Mar, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On the other hand - how much roman armour has been found? AFAIK, comparativly small amounts of roman armour has been excavated, but it doesn't prove that only a small fraction of roman soldiers would have had armour... Then one has to remember that it's easier to find roman armour if excavations are made at the sites of old roman forts, were thousands of legionaries were stationed for a long time. It's much more difficult however to locate such concentrations of fighting men dating from the early Middle ages.
View user's profile Send private message
Michael Douglas





Joined: 03 Feb 2007

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun 18 Mar, 2007 8:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I wonder if it is possible to devise some tests to determine what
may be more effective at resisting side-of-face blows ;
Hanging mail curtain/coif with and without padding
or Cheekplates of various designs with and without padding.
Are there any remains of padding on surviving cheekplates?

Mikael you are right, it must be very difficult to find any concentration
of rank-and-file armour from migration/dark-age/pre-viking context.
View user's profile


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Migration / Early Medieval armor transition question
Page 2 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2 All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum