[Lloyd Clark]

And people complain that falling from an 18hh draft is too far....

And I can attest first hand that horses do not like the smell of camels (or elephants for that matter). Best to use mounted archers against them from a distance and hope that the wind is with you

[Jean Thibodeau]

Lloyd;

Sort of " Smell Warfare " a few camels could make a large group of cavalry ineffective if the horses became upset.

I guess those using camels would have a problem using horse cavalry themselves unless they kept them FAR away from the camels until after the opposite side's calvary became useless: I can see some clever tactical possibilities.

[Edward Hitchens]

Wow, I never thought I'd see camel armor before! How cool is that?! Here's something I've always wanted to know: Have elephants ever been used in warfare, and if so, what were the tactics?

[Alina Boyden]

[Jean Thibodeau]

Alina;

I remember seeing on local T. V. many many years ago an Italian film based on Scipio Africanus that clearly shows the use of the battle tactic you described with Elephants. This film, I believe was produced during the Musselini pre- WWII period in part as entertainement and for propaganda purposes. ( Italy at war in Ethiopia at the time ! )

I'm sure it must have had Scipio in the title somewhere. I have NO idea if it is available as a DVD in English or in French: The version I saw was dubbed in French. ( This was in the 1950 to 1965 era when our local Montreal French CBC T.V. station would show a lot of films from the 1930 to 1950 period, it would be worth a PHD in film history today ...... LOL. )

Don't know if you can find this film in general distribution or if you might find it in a film history library at University. ( Or with contacts with direct Italian film History sources maybe. )

If you could find it I'm sure you would find it interesting: They used thousands of Italian soldiers to portray the Roman soldiers and I don't think I remember anything more impressive or authentic EVER.

If you do find it on DVD I would appreciate finding out and trying to get it for myself.

[Gordon Frye]

I have to agree with Lloyd on this one, that a fall from a camel ought to be "interesting" to say the least! I have virtually no experience with camels, but what I have read is plenty of good reason to want one in the desert, and not want one anywhere else. As noted by wags, the camel is a horse designed by committee...

Back to jousting/cavalry with camels, again as Lloyd noted, horses, unless they have been previously exposed to them (and elephants as well) tend to be rather disturbed by the smell/sight of them (a good horse firmly believes that a camel just looks "wrong" and smells worse, LOL!) Alexander's cavalry was routed rather quickly by the Persians using elephants, and I understand that at least on occasion the same effect could be made with camels. But since the only general users of camels were Bedou, not a whole lot of Westerners got to see that effect prior to the imperial expansions of the 19th Century...

I would expect certainly that the best use of the lance would be as a spear, to be weilded by the cameleer with one or both hands, rather than "couched" as with a heavy Western lance. First, getting up the speed, second keeping the blasted camel going in a straight line long enough, and finally making contact in some sort of charge. From what I understand, Camels are definitely of the cat school of thought (so Alina, you mixing apples and oranges by liking camels and dogs! )

Dang, I have to admit that I'm in over my head here though... camels as cavalry. Interesting! Dragoons perhaps... and I find myself firmly in the Horse/Cat camp, BTW... MORE apples and oranges!

Cheers!

Gordon

[Steve Fabert]

The Turks, at least, have long assumed that camels are capable of employment in combat roles. I well recall some years ago seeing a short film on Turkish camel wrestling, which showed how overdeveloped the musculature of the specially bred wrestling camels had become, and how frenzied the combat was in the 'playoffs', with camels literally foaming at the mouth to come to grips with one another and throw their opponent to the ground using their long necks. This post is NOT a joke, though the action was hilarious to watch from the perspective of a Westerner who had never heard of wrestling camels before.
http://www.atamanhotel.com/camel.html
http://www.wexclub.com/WEX2_8/camel_wrestling.html
http://www.kulturturizm.gov.tr/portal/default_en.asp?belgeno=5983

And here is a short video clip: http://www.discoverturkey.com/Avi/deve.mpg

[Steve Grisetti]