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Levi Woods
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Sun 24 Oct, 2010 9:37 am Post subject: |
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In reading this thread, there have been responses and pictures sent of 14th century gauntlets. I'm wondering how accurate these bestarmour.com gauntlets are. Are they based on a particular existing 15th century pair? Was is typical (in the 15th century) that the leather strips rivet to lame on the back of the hand or should there be a "rocker plate" between the knuckle plate on the finger gatlings that the leather strip would connect to? (similarly to the plate that hides in hugh knight's post above)
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Emil Andersson
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| Posted: Sun 24 Oct, 2010 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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That would actually be interesting to know, Levi. For reference, here are some of BestArmour's pictures of the gauntlets. They are the ones labelled RG 4.4 on that page.
Linky.
And Christian, my southern Swedish habitat is awfully far away from where you'll be, but I still want to thank you for your advice.
I will let you know how I get on with the gauntlets, but for now I am reviewing my alternatives (and trying to get in touch with knowledgeables around here for some hands-on feedback) before I do anything drastic.
Thank you,
Emil Andersson
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Emil Andersson
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| Posted: Sun 20 Feb, 2011 12:47 am Post subject: |
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Hello again,
Sorry for bringing this old thread back up, but I figured I'd let those of you who're interested know how I was getting on with this little issue. I wrote the armourers themselves and asked them for closer instructions (now, why I didn't just do that in the first place is beyond me at this point..) and I ended up doing things a little bit different than how it used to be. Before, I had connected the gauntlets and gloves only right out at the fingertips of both, and left it at that. Now, I started out at the fingertips and sewed back up the fingers, until I was roughly halfway up on both sides. This completely changed how the plates around the knuckles move when I tighten my grip on things, pulling the finger lames out and forward whereas they earlier went kind of upwards too, contacting the overriding knuckle plate and pushing the base of the finger lames into my hands.
The re-sewing demanded the better part of a day to get it done and right, but now they're definately tonnes better than they were before. 
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Lucas Simms
Location: Washington Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sun 20 Feb, 2011 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| Emil Andersson wrote: | Hello,
Thank you for your input. I have here some pictures that I hope will be helpful in showing you how the gauntlets are constructed. They were made by BestArmour.com, by the way.
You'll also have to forgive my skills as a photographer, it's really nothing to write home about...
The segmented metacarpal plate (that is the one covering the top of the hand, right?) is capable of stretching to accomodate the length of a clenched fist. It also allows for sideways movement of the wrist, although I have not captured it in photo now. You can see here:
Relaxed.
Stretched. (it can stretch a little bit further than this as well - note the emerging holes for the rivets to move in)
Now I'll show you the placement of the leather digits beneath the metacarpal plate. For reference, the first rivet of the leather fingers is right underneath the raised knuckle plate and just above my own knuckles. If I clench my fist really tight when I am strapped in completely, I can feel those rivets pushing into my hand.
Digits.
Digits + knuckle-strap for fastening the hand.
How the knuckle-strap is connected to the raised knuckle plate.
Here are some pictures of how I have sown on the leather gloves:
Pointing straight.
Pointing straight some more.
Clenched.
As a note, I am currently wearing the gauntlets with two pairs of thin synthetic gloves on, as well as the swordsman's leather gloves. This is because it gets rather cold for the fingers in nothing but the leather gloves. These synthetic gloves were not accounted for when I sent my measurements to BestArmour.com. However, as I wrote above, even without these added gloves I can feel the digit rivets pushing into my hand if I clench the fist tightly.
The prime suspect in my eyes is the knuckle-strap you can see in the digit pictures. Might it be a problem where it is pushing my clenched hand up into the digit base? Perhaps it is worth a shot to have it a little bit longer and therefore looser.
Thanks for taking your time,
Emil Andersson |
I've never seen such a construction. The fingers are usually attached to the final lame, right after the knuckles.
Lucas
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Sun 20 Feb, 2011 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Christian G. Cameron wrote: | | I'll be in Helsinki in November--with my gauntlets--fighting at Guy Windsor's academy. I am sure Mr. Windsor knows a fair amount about such things--even more sure that his local sword maker, JT Palink (sp?) can also. |
That'd probably be JT Pälikkö. 
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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Johan Gemvik
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| Posted: Sun 20 Feb, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Emil, this gauntlet issue seems to have been nicely settled by yourself, but since you were getting advice to contact SPQR and Nidingbane, which are both excellent low cost web shops that sell armour and medieval reproduscions in general, I thought I should direct you not just to those who sell armour but also those who are actual armorers making it.
If you're still looking for a swedish armourer I'd talk to Albert Collins at Via Armorari here in Sweden. He makes stuff for the museums, most recently a display with a complete set for a mounted knight and a retainer for the Medeltidsmuseet in Stockholm, and is both a great guy and a superior armuorer.
http://www.viaarmorari.com/
"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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Aleksei Sosnovski
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| Posted: Sun 20 Feb, 2011 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Are the fingers really attached to the metacarpal plate? Is this solution correct from historical point of view? Any surviving examples? I have always attached fingers to the knuckle plate and never had any problems. It is the knuckle plate that increases circumference of the hand when you clench your fist (and on hourglass gauntlets there was this narrow plate instead of knuckle plate). I think you should consider getting the fingers riveted to the knuckle plate.
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Johan Gemvik
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| Posted: Sun 20 Feb, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Aleksei Sosnovski wrote: | | Are the fingers really attached to the metacarpal plate? Is this solution correct from historical point of view? Any surviving examples? I have always attached fingers to the knuckle plate and never had any problems. It is the knuckle plate that increases circumference of the hand when you clench your fist (and on hourglass gauntlets there was this narrow plate instead of knuckle plate). I think you should consider getting the fingers riveted to the knuckle plate. |
Yes, I too thought that was how they were attached and I've studied the hourglass gauntets up close at Wallace. granted these may just be half gauntlets that never had fingers, but still. Did I miss something? I too wish this point to be resolved. Perhaps some had it and others didn't? How common was either historically?
"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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Aleksei Sosnovski
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| Posted: Mon 21 Feb, 2011 12:14 am Post subject: |
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I have photos of one 15-16 century gauntlet where fingers are clearly attached to the knuckle plate. On hourglass gauntlets it is possible to attach fingers directly to the metacarpal plate without that narrow plate, just as starter of this topic managed to make his gauntlets fit OK even though fingers are riveted to the wrong (at least I think so) place. I would guess that first hourglass gauntlets did not have this narrow plate.
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This is a standard topic