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Ben Mudd
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 Posted: Wed 03 Mar, 2010 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Just as a note, I've actually found a third brass from this time frame showing a visor of this sort, this time from a side-view. Pure coincidence, really . . . I was looking at a rubbing I took in Westminster Abbey when I was a child, of a brass of St. George, that's been hanging on the walls of my room for years, and which I haven't really looked at closely for about that long. I noticed that he was wearing a visor of exactly the same sort that we'd been talking about here.
Here's a picture of it:
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It's part of the brass from the tomb of Sir Hugh Hastings, d. 1347 . . . also from St. Mary's in Elsing. Apparently Westminster Abbey has a copy of that brass in the collection they keep for tourists to take rubbings from in their basement.
Here's the whole thing:
I can't find a high resolution image of the entire piece, but it would be interesting to see some more detail of the figures along the towers of the church that's framing Sir Hugh.
EDIT: Now this is interesting! Apparently the figures of Sir Ralph Stafford and Sir Thomas Beauchamp that I posted above ARE the mourners on the church towers. Sir Hugh's friends and relatives mourning his passing, or some such. I had no idea that all three of the images I've found showing this style of visor were apparently three different parts of the same larger brass.
I think that the sideview of St. George does clearly indicate a much more protrusive, almost gorget-like plate descending from the bottom of his bascinet's visor, although of course it's open to debate whether such a thing truly existed or was a figment of the artist's imagination or artistic license.
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Michael Zander
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Ben Mudd
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| Posted: Thu 04 Mar, 2010 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks!
I'd been looking at photos of all of these for months, but I just never knew that they were all part of the same monument until the other day, because I'd never seen a good photo or drawing of the whole thing together.
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Ben Mudd
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| Posted: Thu 04 Mar, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, was just taking another look . . . and what's up with that weird gorget/collar that Laurence Hastings is wearing?
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Andrew McKinnon
Location: Sydney Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Fri 05 Mar, 2010 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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This is a speculative crack at a helm from that period. It is a bit too back pointed to be perfect. The visor is not quite as elongated at the bottom as the examples you are looking at but it may give you some ideas. Enjoy! I just sold it actually.
Andrew McKinnon
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Ben Mudd
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| Posted: Fri 05 Mar, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Yup, I've been looking at pictures of yours for months now on the Archive. Very nice, and very out of my price range.
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Andrew McKinnon
Location: Sydney Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Fri 05 Mar, 2010 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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No worries. I have moved into the late 14thC now and sold that older kit off. More plate is better for jousting. Good luck with the helm Ben.
Andrew McKinnon
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Gregory J. Liebau
Location: Dinuba, CA Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 669
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Ben Mudd
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| Posted: Fri 05 Mar, 2010 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Gregory J. Liebau wrote: | | Ben Mudd wrote: | | Actually, was just taking another look . . . and what's up with that weird gorget/collar that Laurence Hastings is wearing? |
Check this topic! |
Hah! I knew I'd seen a thread about this recently, I just couldn't find it. Trust me, I tried. Didn't think to search for bevor, though . . .
Thanks, Andrew, good luck with the jousting! Trying that out one day is one of my long term goals. And thanks for having that kit, I've been looking at different parts of it for months now, helping work through the three dimensionality of how transitional armour goes together, it's a great resource.
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Gregory J. Liebau
Location: Dinuba, CA Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 669
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Ben Mudd
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| Posted: Fri 05 Mar, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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There's a reason for that. 
I posted the same/similar question on both boards because there are a fair number of pretty well informed people on both, not all of whom read both, and I figured this is something likely obscure enough that it'd be worth asking both sets of people--especially because I'm asking this in light of being curious about its applicability as part of an SCA kit.
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Gregory J. Liebau
Location: Dinuba, CA Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 669
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Ben Mudd
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| Posted: Fri 05 Mar, 2010 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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I am.
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Sander Marechal
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| Posted: Sat 06 Mar, 2010 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Andrew McKinnon wrote: | | This is a speculative crack at a helm from that period. |
Fantastic piece of kit Andrew. One question, what's with that aventail that make the edges look rounded? Is there a padded aventail underneath that the mail aventail wraps around or something?
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Andrew McKinnon
Location: Sydney Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sat 06 Mar, 2010 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| Sander Marechal wrote: | | Andrew McKinnon wrote: | | This is a speculative crack at a helm from that period. |
Fantastic piece of kit Andrew. One question, what's with that aventail that make the edges look rounded? Is there a padded aventail underneath that the mail aventail wraps around or something? |
Sure is. The padding sits under the aventail. Adds extra protection and the aventail sits nicely too.
Andrew McKinnon
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This is a standard topic