Terminology question for helmet decoration -- myArmoury.com

Harrison M

Hello all! I was wondering if anyone might know the proper term for the 'circlet' around this helmet. I've had a terrible time trying to track down its proper name in google.

Additionally, any info on where to buy one, or how to make one would be very appreciated!

[ Linked Image ]

Joshua McGee · Posted: Fri 07 Jun, 2013 7:20 pm Post subject:

I'm not the best expert on the matter, but I thought these particular "circlets" were an SCAdianism or Renn Faire thing, at least in this form.

Jeffrey Hildebrandt · Industry Professional

If it were on a bascinet, I would feel confident calling it an orle, but some people think they played a role in nesting a great helm over top, which isn't something a barbute would be needing...

This is an orle:

[ Linked Image ]

I am not sure if anyone knows quite how they were made - I have read that they may have been tooled, gilded and decorated leather, but I cannot remember details or my source.

-Hildebrandt

Harrison M · Posted: Fri 07 Jun, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject:

Well, I've seen images from the period of these things on top of great helms, so I myself I am little skeptical of how much they may have been used as nesting for under it. Though also given how they end up combined with heralding helmet crest design later on, I'd say they probably have an origin as just decoration.

I've read somewhere that the fashion, in Italy at least is some what influenced by contact with the Islamic world. And indeed, while hard to track down any specific images of them, they do appear in the costumes of the pageantry and costumes involved in the renaissance and medieval festivals around Italy.

http://wishversilia.blogspot.com/2012/05/jous...-june.html

Harrison M · Posted: Fri 07 Jun, 2013 9:21 pm Post subject:

Oh a different note, I actually managed to track down the term: "Torse"

Scott Hrouda · Posted: Fri 07 Jun, 2013 10:02 pm Post subject:

Iagoba Ferreira · Posted: Sat 08 Jun, 2013 2:19 am Post subject:

http://www.greatestbattles.iblogger.org/Italy...e_left.htm
Not the best photo, but many can be seen on the infantrymen open helmets.

In "the battle of San Romano" an infantryman wears a massive one...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...lo_016.jpg

Both Italian...

Kel Rekuta · Posted: Sat 08 Jun, 2013 3:57 pm Post subject:

Hmm... hope that's not from Toby Capwell's as-yet unpublished PhD thesis. What is the source Jeffrey?

Kel Rekuta · Posted: Sat 08 Jun, 2013 4:09 pm Post subject:

As to the OP, putting a torse on a 14thC bascinet is a SCAdianism. A torse and mantlet on a great helm is appropriate and encouraged. On a celata di Venezia? Unlikely, unless for a parade. On a grand bascinet? Sure, for the tournament.

The orle seems to be a fashion peculiar to early 15thC England. Very elaborate and distinctive decoration!

Jeffrey Hildebrandt · Industry Professional

Kel, I found that one on effigiesandbrasses.com. The recently improved website is very accessible.

Scott Hrouda · Posted: Sat 08 Jun, 2013 7:37 pm Post subject:

Kel Rekuta · Posted: Sun 09 Jun, 2013 1:21 am Post subject:

Kel Rekuta · Posted: Sun 09 Jun, 2013 1:24 am Post subject:

Harrison M · Posted: Sun 09 Jun, 2013 5:49 am Post subject:

Brian Ames · Posted: Wed 12 Jun, 2013 7:28 am Post subject:

Most basic heraldry COA websites name the portions of a great helm’s accouterments.

The crest is the charge or device, the mantle is the covering of either cloth or leather which the device is on top of and the torse is the cord or twisted fabric ‘holding’ the mantle onto the helm.

The mantle would be the primary color and metal of the knight’s COA. The torse is supposed to be the colors/favor of your lady.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 12 Jun, 2013 7:39 am Post subject:

FWIW, Embleton and Howe refer to them as "turbans" in their medieval soldier book. That might be a placeholder term in lieu of an historical term.

Harrison M · Posted: Sat 22 Jun, 2013 6:09 am Post subject:

M. Curk · Posted: Sat 22 Jun, 2013 11:41 pm Post subject:

Not sure if this is correct since it was probably a fasion thing, but wouldn't it keep your helmet a bit cooler if soaked in water before use? This just came to my mind as I was reading and the more I think, the more probable it seems to me.

Luka Borscak · Posted: Sun 23 Jun, 2013 3:14 am Post subject:

Well, it would, but it would also rust very fast...

M. Curk · Posted: Sun 23 Jun, 2013 3:55 am Post subject:

Yeah, this might be a problem, but on a battlefield I probably wouldn't mind getting my helm a bit more rusty (as there are certainly other factors like sweat or rain present that cause it) if that kept my head cooler. But for the reenactment purposes...