knight and lightning -- myArmoury.com

Christopher VaughnStrever · Posted: Fri 15 May, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: knight and lightning

someone saw me in my armour and mentioned the lightning rod effect from wearing armour... any thing like a knight getting struck by lightning in period artwork or anything?

Steven H · Posted: Sat 16 May, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject:

No examples from history that I know of but the metal armour would leave you relatively safe in the event of a lightning strike. The electricity "wants" to travel the path of least resistance and the surface of your armour is it. You are separated from your armour by insulators - padding, clothes, skin etc. So the electricity has no "reason" to travel through you instead.

This phenomenon is regularly demonstrated at Boston's Museum of Science. The presenter in their electricity show stands in a metal cage with her hands on the bars while it is hit with discharges from the massive Tesla coil. All without injury.

Clearly this would work better if the armour included a helmet and sabatons. And I'm not sure I'd call it safe per se, but the armour certainly shouldn't make it any worse.

Cheers,
Steven

Marton Pap · Posted: Sun 17 May, 2009 4:43 am Post subject:

http://www.thelocal.se/4401/20060723/
I didn't find other sources yet, but the news here in Hungary definitely said that an armoured man was killed by lightning.
http://www.hirtv.hu/?tPath=/kulfold/&article_hid=108377 Sorry but this site has no English version. Maybe someone knows more about this accident.

Warning!
To be protective against lightning, the armor has to be not only full, but all parts have to be in tight galvanic connection with each other and then grounded!!! Unless the path will be: helmet; arc across padding; head, neck etc.; ground.

Carl W. · Posted: Sun 17 May, 2009 9:34 am Post subject:

Can't contribute to Christopher's original question on evidence, but it must have happened. Soccer players, golfers, etc. get hit & killed, & armour would make it more likely.

The metal cage Steven H. mentions is no doubt carefully engineered to permit the demo. Armour is not designed to be a lightning protection system, & lightning is an extraordinarily high energy violent event, not a demo.

See wikipedia on lightning, electric shock, & lightning rod for more.

Gabriele A. Pini · Posted: Sun 17 May, 2009 9:45 am Post subject:

I know that the "Alpini", the italian corp of mountain's troop, during the IWW substitute their helmet with a felt hat, because the metal helmet attracted the lighting: during the war on the Alpes they found a great number of sentinels dead with the feet and the head (or the hands, for the rifle) black.

Obliviosly they didn't wear a full armor, who may, in fact, discarge the current, decreasing the risk for the weaver, but the helmet alone acted like the tip of a lightning rod.

Sean Manning · Posted: Sun 17 May, 2009 9:54 am Post subject:

The other element is the sweaty arming garment underneath. Would it tend to insulate (seperating the skin from the armour) or conduct?

I'm sure it happened, but I don't know of any examples.

Jo Thomas · Posted: Sun 17 May, 2009 9:56 am Post subject:

Steven H · Posted: Sun 17 May, 2009 11:46 am Post subject:

If a car can function as a Faraday cage then so could armour. But it wouldn't necessarily. I hypothesize that 12th and 13th century full mail armour would be most likely to work followed by full plate harness. Any kind of partial armour would presumable not work well.

All told I'm not convinced that metal armour increases the likelihood of a strike. Or if it does increase the likelihood of a strike it does so specifically because the suit is conductive and grounded.

However, I'm not willing to conduct the experiments. It'd still be dangerous after all.

Cheers,
Steven

James Arlen Gillaspie · Industry Professional

Over the years, ever since someone first ribbed me about my likelyhood of being struck by lightning, I've kept a weather eye out (pardon the pun) in my historical reading for such an event, and can't recall running across a single one, despite reading of major battles fought during storms. Anybody else find one?

Zach Gordon · Posted: Sun 17 May, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject:

Someone actually sorta tested this... Chris Angel (a stunt magician with a tv show) put on a mail suit made for shark divers and got struck by lightning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDFuUgXWHIw
sorry for the poor quality i didn't see a better one.

Xan Stepp · Posted: Mon 18 May, 2009 1:48 am Post subject:

First of all, I don't see any reason that a full harness couldn't work as a Faraday cage, I just doubt how effective it could be. The person inside would need to be completely insulated from the metal shell, and this is just not that likely considering that he is probably wet as well. Also the pointed nature of most armor would cause an uneven field distribution in certain areas, which may have negative effects. Finally, even if the person were shielded from the negative electrical effects, some of the secondary effects of the strike (concussion, superheated steam, etc.) may still do the person.

However, as for the (apparent) lack of historical references to lightning strikes, I have a possible solution. It seems that lightning flashes are fairly uncommon in Modern Europe (see http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/images/co...ap_m.jpg), and these statistics account only for flashes not ground to air or air to ground strikes. With this in mind, and the assumption that the lightning patterns over Europe were the same earlier as they are now (a big assumption, but we really have no other data) it seems that there is a very small probably of being struck by lightning in Europe, whether or not you are in armor.

Gabriele A. Pini · Posted: Mon 18 May, 2009 3:11 am Post subject:

A complete armor, linked from the helmet to the boots, can decrease the current through the body of the wearer, but would also decrease the natural resistance of the foot of a men, increasing the amperage of the circuit.

Like we know, it's the amperage that kill a man, but the amperage exist only in a complete circuit.

V = I.R

(The Volts are equal to the Ampers multiplied for the Ohms)

In a circuit sky-man-earth the use of insulation, like work boots, increase the ohms, decrasing the ampers (the volts are fixed, depending on the actual "power" of the lighting): if the ampers are sufficiently reduced there is a chance that the current couldn't kill the person (it's this the motive that use of electrical current with wet feet is so dangerous: the water decrease the resistance feet-earth, increasing the amperage).

Sometimes ago I touched an exposed wire of an old bulb. Fortunately I touched it after the bulb and I weared sport shoes, so I could pull of my fingers, without any damage to myself.

Stephane Rabier · Posted: Mon 18 May, 2009 5:27 am Post subject:

Hi,
the problem with an armor is the gaps between two plates, even if they touch each other, the electrical contact is far from perfect and some BIG sparks can occur or the body could act as a jumper between those parts.
Also, the intensity of a lighting is always very high and the iron (bad conductor) would certainly get red hot and the guy inside "well done" to "overcooked"...

Jared Smith · Posted: Mon 18 May, 2009 9:56 am Post subject:

It is semi related.... The last pagan king of Ireland (King of Connacht, Daithi, Nathi) was claimed to have been stuck by lightning at the foot of the Alps, campaigning towards the edge of Roman Gaul. I would expect him to have had good period armour, but not plate harness. At the time he was evicting a hermit (Formenius) from a tower. In the legend, he was known for incredible speed (deflecting arrows with his bare hands.) Evidently he did not see the bolt coming! Some background is here; http://www.odubhda.com/Default.asp?menuid=25

I was unable to find an illustration of the above event. Additionally, the location specified in the legend is suspicious, and likely an error in interpretation or a period exaggeration of the actual campaign. I could not find corroborative accounts from Romans or Gaul. His body was returned home, which was quite a distance logistically when considering the time frame of a decaying corpse.

Angela Harris · Posted: Mon 18 May, 2009 11:52 am Post subject:

Ironically I've had this same conversation with guys fixing to joust after a thunderstorm...hey, we live in the south! I think someone needs to post this to the Mythbusters. I'd love to see if they could prove or disprove this one LOL.

Max Chouinard · Posted: Tue 23 Jun, 2009 8:21 am Post subject:

The boat of the grand master of the Hospitalier order Villiers de L'isle Adam was struck by lightning near 1522 en route to Rhodes. Nine men died, Villiers sword was caught by a crackle that reduced it to a "twisted scrap" but he remained unharmed (as of course the sword wasn't drawn).

J. Scott Moore · Posted: Tue 23 Jun, 2009 9:55 am Post subject:

not too sure about how well armor would protect against it, but as for a mounted soldier, well my uncle survived a bolt that killed his horse. he was rendered unconcious, and his hat has a neat burn hole. he now is about 55 years old, and has had about 5-6 children.

if he could survive a bolt, without any significant amount of metal on him, wouldn't a metal casing, with the added insulation of arming garments just conduct the energy straight to the horse?

as for lightening traveling through the fastest material possible, I think that wet metal would be a far better conducter than damp clothes. I am sure that it would get VERY hot inside though.

Colt Reeves · Posted: Wed 24 Jun, 2009 11:13 am Post subject:

Hmmmm...

One of the first things I learned about electricity is that it is fickle and unpredictable in nature. Sure, harnessed for house-hold use or whatever it's reliable, but in nature there are so many variables. So, in my opinion you could come across two examples of similiarly sized persons in practically the same armor and situation, but because of some variable or three you can't find, one never got hit or was utterly unharmed and the other got toasted.

As for armor increasing the odds of a lightning strike, consider how often your car gets hit. Lightning strikes are rare, period. Odds are against you being hit regardless of what you're wearing. A good portion of it is about luck and chance. You might well be able to run around in a open field wearing armor during a thunderstorm every chance you get for the rest of your life and never get hit. On the other hand, you could be sleeping at home and a bolt could come through the ceiling and kill you in your bed. (On a side note it was in the news for my area that some woman lost the roof to her living room recently to a lightning strike.)

All this being said, keep in mind even with the odds the way they are, somebody has to be the unlucky sucker who beats the odds. So, don't go dancing around a open field or whatever with or without armor. To put it in Dungeons and Dragons terms, everyone rolls a 1 sooner or later and you only need to fumble the roll once.