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Florian H.
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 Posted: Sat 04 Mar, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject: Advice wanted |
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Hello everybody.
I'm still pretty new here, but I've been eagerly reading everything I could find about ancient arms and armour. Now I think it's time to do the next important step and actually buy a real sword. And that already is the main point of my post. I've been searching the whole net for nearly a year or something now, I know where I can buy what for how much, but I'd really appreciate the advice of someone who has experience in collecting and purchasing, maybe even handling, swords.
I've read pretty much about Albion Swords, and to be honest I'm really in love with the Solingen. I'm really that close to buying it. But €1200...... That's VERY much money.
So please, everybody who thinks can help me with some advice, let me know. Is Albion really that good, is it worth to spend €1200 on a sword like the Solingen, or are there any alternatives? One last thing: that maybe sounds odd, but I don't want to buy a sword of second choice. I'd rather have only one or two but very valuable ones.
So thanx for the help and auf wiedersehen!
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Sat 04 Mar, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Advice wanted |
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| Florian H. wrote: | | ...to be honest I'm really in love with the Solingen. I'm really that close to buying it. But €1200...... That's VERY much money ... Is Albion really that good, is it worth to spend €1200 on a sword like the Solingen, or are there any alternatives? One last thing: that maybe sounds odd, but I don't want to buy a sword of second choice. I'd rather have only one or two but very valuable ones.... |
Florian, welcome to myArmoury. There are many here with much more experience than I have, but I offer the following comments.
1. I own two Albions, from the "first generation", not the "Next Generation" or the "Museum Line", like the Solingen that you are considering. I can say, though, that I am very satisfied with the quality of my pieces.
2. Yes, €1200 on a sword is a great deal of money. I have not yet spent that much on any single piece, however your stated preference of one or two very valuable swords shows a different set of priorities from mine.
3. I recall only positive comments about the quality of the Museum Line pieces from those that have purchased them, so that suggests that those buyers feel that the swords are well worth the price to them. There is a Solingen Review here at myArmoury. If you have not read it, you should do so.
4. There are a lot of alternatives, but any alternative involves some sort of compromise. In the end, only you can decide if the Solingen or ANY sword for that matter, is worth €1200 or whatever price the sword happens to be.
5. Since you have been researching this for roughly a year, I am sure that you have seen a lot of the alternatives, and yet you love the Solingen. If you really feel that way and have the money, and you don't need the money for a higher priority, I think you have already made your decision.
Good luck!
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Joe Fults
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| Posted: Sat 04 Mar, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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If you want the Solingin and its in stock, go for it.
Its very nice.
If its not in stock, keep searching until it is in stock and pick it up then if you don't find anything better.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Alexi Goranov
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Sat 04 Mar, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Advice wanted |
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| Florian H. wrote: | Hello everybody.
I'm still pretty new here, but I've been eagerly reading everything I could find about ancient arms and armour. Now I think it's time to do the next important step and actually buy a real sword. And that already is the main point of my post. I've been searching the whole net for nearly a year or something now, I know where I can buy what for how much, but I'd really appreciate the advice of someone who has experience in collecting and purchasing, maybe even handling, swords.
I've read pretty much about Albion Swords, and to be honest I'm really in love with the Solingen. I'm really that close to buying it. But €1200...... That's VERY much money.
So please, everybody who thinks can help me with some advice, let me know. Is Albion really that good, is it worth to spend €1200 on a sword like the Solingen, or are there any alternatives? One last thing: that maybe sounds odd, but I don't want to buy a sword of second choice. I'd rather have only one or two but very valuable ones.
So thanx for the help and auf wiedersehen! |
Hi Florian,
Welcome to myArmoury.com. Whether or not albion swords are worth their values is largely a subjective call. I own over half-a-dozen albion swords and have another one on order, so you can quess what I think about them 
I love the Solingen and I was very close to buying it, but instead I ordered the Tritonia. there is a review of the Solingen at this site. Maybe that will answer some of your questions.
To really appreciate Albion swords you need to also handle many other brands and also authentic swords. But as I said the price tag may be subjective issue. The Albion knight is a terrific sword that is about half the price tag, that you may want to consider as an alternative first buy. I own the knight and I can say that it is a very nice sword. It is not the same as the Solingen but it is somewhat related bing Oakeshott type XII, while the Solingen is a tweener between type XII and type XIV. You may also consder the Sovereign (type XIV) which is a bit cheeper as well.
My only warning will be to try to understand what to expect. Sometime because of all the praise and all the great words spoken, and because of the high price tag, one sets unreasonable expectations and that may lead to unnecessary disappointment. This is not to say that Albion does not deliver a great product but that the expectations about the properties of the product may be unrealistic.
Good luck,
Alexi
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Mike Capanelli
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| Posted: Sat 04 Mar, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: the solingen.............. |
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Well IMHO I think the solingen is a great sword and well worth the money. I've had mine for a little shy of a year now and am very pleased with it. In fact i have never been let down by albion. I own 7 swords including the squire line great sword I use to train. About the only problem I've had is the grip came undone on the squire. Considering that it sees use 2 to 4 times a week as a sparring tool, I have no problem with re wrapping it. I think even with the price increase I would have purchased my solingen. I can honestly say I have never regretted any purchase from them.This is just my experience with albion though.
Blessings,
Michael
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Stephen Hughes
Location: Grand Bend, Ontario Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: |
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There's obviously an outpouring of love for Albion, and I hope to handle one someday and find out why. I would like to suggest another option though, one that would get your feet wet, as it were.
Like you I waited a long time to buy my first functional sword. Longer, even. I knew about Albion and Del Tin, and saw their work in movies and on TV, but wasn't sure if I could spend so much without holding one in my hand. Then I moved near a place (www.reliks.com) that retails functional swords for Windlass Steelcrafts. Got to handle them, and realised that for a price so very much less than an Albion or the like, I could get a sword that was similar in quality to what a sergeant or mercenary might afford, and have more of them for my collection.
Windlass has a lot of bad press, and probably they deserved it, but almost everything I've handled at Reliks felt usable and solid - most of a proper weight, comfortable balance, and solid for the money. They have obviously improved since those days where collectors formed such a low opinion of them. Most people here will refer to them as MRL (from www.museumreplicas.com) swords, as that is the main U.S. retail company. Hopefully there is a way to get these swords in Austria without having to deal with them being sent from India to the U.S.A. and then to Europe. That amount of shipping would be quite the expense.
Again, Albion is probably among the shining giants of reproduction swords, and I personally look forward to being able to add such high-end pieces to my collection. For a first sword, or a first few that together will still probably cost less than one good Albion, getting an MRL sword is a reasonable alternative IMHO. I own the Shrewsbury and the High Renaissance (the latter no longer offered), and have handled many others in the store. The only grain of salt to take with my advice is that I've never handled an Albion. Perhaps I'd be saying "Windlass who?" if I had.
Good luck, and remember: you can never stop with just one...
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Joe Fults
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| Posted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Stephen Hughes wrote: | | Windlass has a lot of bad press, and probably they deserved it, but almost everything I've handled at Reliks felt usable and solid - most of a proper weight, comfortable balance, and solid for the money. They have obviously improved since those days where collectors formed such a low opinion of them. |
Stephen,
With all due respect, I think that Windlass quality is still pretty shoddy.
In my opinion as a hobbiest, almost all Windlass swords make significant historical accuracy compromises. I also feel very strongly that you never know what you will get when you buy from them by catalog or Internet. One sword is good, the next is garbage. Unless you're in a store, with Windlass, I think you're gambling.
The big advantage you have at Reliks, is that if the sword is a stinker you get to put it back on the shelf. In defense of MRL, which is Windlass, they have a good return policy. That said you still have hassle and time shipping back to them if you get junk. There is no way I'm going to convince you that being close to Reliks makes all the difference in the world, but I think it really does. That said, I also think your recommendation to try before buying, is probably the best that can ever be given, if you can figure out a way to do it.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
Last edited by Joe Fults on Sun 05 Mar, 2006 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jared Smith
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| Posted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Just as an input in case you are debating about going a lower cost route for your first sword, but still want the Albion quality.
I recently recently recieved the Albion Knight, and now fully identify with some forum members who consider it a favorite one hander, or had to buy it after handling it with only the intention of writing a review on the Knight . There are definate similarities between the Knight and Solingen, and I suspect you would have to be an expert to differentiate any handling improvements of the Solingen over the Knight. The Knight lacks just a couple of the finer details in the pommel and gaurd curve of the Solingen. Based on the new prices, the Knight is a bargain at only just over half the cost of the Solingen. The Knight is a pretty combination of classic design, even if it is not based on any specific museum piece.
I am sure you would love either sword if they are the general typology that you want. But, with the Knight you could also purchase a helm or commission a scabbard within the same budget as just the bare Solingen.
Have fun deliberating your first purchase. I know I agonized over mine (Albion Crecey Grete sitting here within eye sight now...) Good Luck!
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Florian H.
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| Posted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: |
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First of all, thank you for all your replies! It' s great to be among people who obviously share the same passions, or probably insanity is more correct . I think I'll really have to sleep a couple of nights more over my decision. But pretty sure it will be the Solingen or the Sovereign to be bought. Since no one of you adviced me against Albions work, I guess they really must be like the Mercedes among sword-makers.. .
Mr. Goranov, I don't know if I get the point here; what exactly should my expectations about one of Albions swords be like? It would be nice if you could give me a little info on how that was ment.
And one last question: What's really about that mysterious blade geometry-thing? I found this topic handled like the holy grail of swordmaking. How imprtant is it really? Can I expect a sword with correct or proper distal taper from every swordsmith who is recreating swords? It's just because Albions homepage is the only one I read about this feature. And so excessivly often that I don't really know if this is just for marketing purposes or really something that only Mr Johnsson and the folks at Albion know how to incorporate into a sword? It would be very kind if someone could tell me a bit about that.
In anyway, thanx a lot for your immediate replies, and pfiat eich gott!
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Arms and Armor make beautiful functional swords at a lower price than Albion charges. www.arms-n-armor.com Their quality may not match Albion's Museum Line, but it is agurable that they are at the level of the next Gen Line.
Distal Taper is not a marketing invention of Albion, but a thoroughly discussed and investigated subject over the past few years. I'm not the person to explain it. Here is an thread that may get you started - http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s...stal+taper
Also note that when you wrote down blade geometry and distal taper, you created a link to an explanatory articlr
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Proper mass distribution (combinations of thickness, distal taper, profile taper, cross-sections), etc. are critical to good handling and overall performance. There are a pile of threads on balance, mass-distribution, and edge geometry around here. Check out our Spotlight Topics for a lot of information. Angus Trim talks a lot about balance and "harmonics" as does Michael "Tinker Pierce." Arms & Armor talks less about it, though posts by Craig Johnson and their products show they are well aware of how it works. Basically, on any sword costing $500 USD or more, you should expect the maker to have an understanding of how it all works and to have applied that knowledge to the product. For less expensive swords, the makers seem more interested in looks and weight than proper mass distribution. We have well over 100 reviews on our reviews page; each includes a section on handling/performance. Between the spotlight threads and the reviews you should be able to get a good idea of how blade shapes/propoprtions affect performance.
I love the Sovereign. I've handled the Solingen and it's a fine sword. My personal preference is for the Sovereign, but it I were a wealthy man, I'd own both (and a lot of other things). I like the price of the Sovereign better. Both swords have been reviewed, as people have pointed out.
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ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Florian H.
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| Posted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Mr. Arnow, that was very exactly what I wanted to know, so thank you very much!
Is the depicted Sovereign yours? It looks absolutely amazing! The brass guard and the emblem on the pommel are great. Are they optional modifications by Albion? If not, how were they realized?
Thanx and auf wiedersehen!
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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I've got a Sovereign too. Its a good sword. The bronze guard and pommel are standard. The coin in the pommel is something Chad got elsewhere - a replica coin of Edward I, that fits quite nicely (Strangely, I have one of those coins too)
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Alexi Goranov
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Florian H. wrote: |
Mr. Goranov, I don't know if I get the point here; what exactly should my expectations about one of Albions swords be like? It would be nice if you could give me a little info on how that was ment. |
Hi Florian,
The reason I wrote that is because I remembered when I bought my first Albion. every scratch, every little thing I thought I noticed was making me feel suspicious of the quality. I was panicking that my edges were not sharp enough to slice cleanly trough paper, etc, etc. It took a while, and some cutting, and some handling of historical swords, to figure out what is important and what is not, and most importantly what is historically plausible and expected.
I was not the only person to obsess over such things once one spent over $700 for a sword. the point is about expectations.
There are several threads around about edge sharpness where such issues were explained kindly to me. One of the treads is a spotlight topic which you can check out..
the other issue is what to expect from the sword in terms of performance. Just because this is over $1000 swords does not mean it will not take damage if used, and especially if abused. There were instances of such things happening. Here is a thread where you can read much more .
I hope that helps you understand what I meant by "setting your expectations right". It will help you appreciate the sword more.
Alexi
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Jonathon Janusz
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| Posted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Just as an FYI: The Sovereign comes standard with a steel cross and either a bronze or steel pommel. The bronze cross was (if memory serves) originally Chad's brain child. Albion had cast (again if memory serves) somewhere between 10 and 20 of these crosses, the sword Chad had built using the first. These all bronze Sovereigns were then sold as a special item during trade shows and promotions over the last year or so. Sadly, Albion has no more of these crosses and (as far as I know) has no plans to make any more.
Chad, that is a very handsome scabbard you've got there. I assume that was the collaborative venture you've been talking about needing the bronze elements made for 
. . . I really wish I could have jumped a little quicker to order my Sovereign in all bronze. . . missed it by a week. . . maybe someday I'll find one out in the secondary market
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sun 05 Mar, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Florian H. wrote: | Mr. Arnow, that was very exactly what I wanted to know, so thank you very much!
Is the depicted Sovereign yours? It looks absolutely amazing! The brass guard and the emblem on the pommel are great. Are they optional modifications by Albion? If not, how were they realized?
Thanx and auf wiedersehen! |
Florian,
Others have covered this, but yes, it's mine and can be seen in my Collection Gallery. The guard and pommel are bronze, not brass. The bronze pommel is a stock option. Mine was supposed to be the only one with a bronze guard, but Albion ended up with some spares from the foundry that they eventually sold off. I don't believe there were 20 of the guards made, though. The coin is a reproduction Edward I coin purchased from by-the-sword.com.
For more info on the coin customization, see here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=3583
Jonathan, the scabbard has a covered wood core by Aaron Schnatterly. The belt and chape are by Kevin Iseli.
For info on the scabbard, see this: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=65346#65346
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
Last edited by Chad Arnow on Mon 06 Mar, 2006 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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Herbert Schmidt
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| Posted: Mon 06 Mar, 2006 3:33 am Post subject: |
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I own the Solingen among others and it is a fine sword well worth the money. Only thing to consider is the handle: it is rather on the thin side. If you like thin handles it is ok. If not you may want to reconsider. You may also wear thicker gloves to compensate this. Apart from the thin handle the solingen is a beautiful and well made sword which will stand repeated use.
If you have questions, mail me - if you are in the vicinity you can come around and have a look at the Solingen yourself.
schöne Grüße
Herbert
www.arsgladii.at
Historical European Martial Arts
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Mon 06 Mar, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: | | Arms and Armor make beautiful functional swords... |
Absolutely! I have two Arms & Armor swords, and am very pleased with them! I did not mention Arms & Armor as an alternative, in my earlier post, since I don't believe that they have a production Type XIV similar to the Albion Solingen or Sovereign. However, you might have a look at this very fine, customized replica, by Arms & Armor, of a Type XIV in the Metropolitan Museum of Art (XIV.1 in Oakeshott's Records of the Medieval Sword).
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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