Big swords in the 14th century -- myArmoury.com

Levente M. · Posted: Tue 20 Jan, 2015 2:57 am Post subject: Big swords in the 14th century

So I saw Ablion's Archduke sword the other day, and how big it is. I didn't know there were swords this huge in the 14th century, I always thought it was a late15th, 16th century thing. So can someone please show me some originals? Photos, measurements, whatever.

Also, what were these used for? 14th century is the time period when more and more plate armor pieces appear, against which swords are nearly useless. So swords were mainly a side weapon, becuase it's easy to carry. (Feel free to correct me at any point, if I'm wrong please! Big Grin

) And to defeat armor, one would use a mace, a spear or something more suited for the job. The Archduke is too big to be a sideweapon, or to be worn on a belt. So what good is it as a main weapn, against armor? Why would someone carry something like this, instead of a pollaxe or a mace?
I imagine it would work great against unarmored opponents, especially if you have to fight more than one?

Henrik Granlid · Posted: Tue 20 Jan, 2015 3:34 am Post subject:

Probably good for use against unruly crowds, but also on the battlefield since a lot of people's primary defense would still be aketons. And 140 cqn fit comfortably, just like a 120 or 130 sword, especially if you're mounted to begin with.

Bryan Heff · Posted: Tue 20 Jan, 2015 4:43 am Post subject:

There are a few examples of massive XIIa and XIIIa swords in Oakeshott's Records with upwards of 39" or more (don't have the book in front of me, so this is from memory). I know I was sort of surprised at the size of some of them when I first got my copy of the book. How they were used is I believe never been truly fleshed out and there have been several discussions here about how the early Great Swords were used if you want to do a search for them.

Here is one -
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...highlight=

Levente M. · Posted: Tue 20 Jan, 2015 5:10 am Post subject:

39" BLADE length, right?
I looked at german effigies from the era, and I see a lot of the knights holding the sword in their hand, in a scabbard. Just like you can see on 15-16th century images, people carrying the big swords on their shoulders, in a scabbard. And they have a katzbalger or long baselard on their belt.
Although the scabbards in the effigies seem to have a belt or some sort of strap on them.

I wonder if it's just a german artistic style, to have the sword in hand in effigies, or they have a smaller sword on their belt like in later times? Often you can't see, because a shield hides most of the waist area.

More reason for me to think these are main weapons. With a blade that long, you can make some nice swings from horseback.
Or keep multiple people away from an area, on foot.

I read that thread, I suppose the opinions haven't changed and there's no new info then?

Luka Borscak · Posted: Tue 20 Jan, 2015 8:44 am Post subject:

This one is an obvious example:
http://www.myArmoury.com/view.html?features/pic_spotxii13.jpg

In History museum of Zagreb, Croatia, there are at least two big XIIIa swords from 14th century with blades over 100cm long (102 and 103 I think) and one also 14th century XVIa with broad and powerful blade also over 100cm long. I have seen plenty of such swords in various books and webpages, they were quite popular in 14th century... Since most people wouldn't have full plate armour and big bascinets or greathelms, such swords would be very effective. Only in 15th and 16th century full plate armour was complete enough to provide security even against strikes with such big swords, but even than plenty of foot soldiers wouldn't have such protection...

Shahril Dzulkifli · Posted: Sun 25 Jan, 2015 7:22 am Post subject: Big swords in the 14th century

[ Linked Image ]
This sword, with its blade reaching more than 100cm, is quite immense! Even I cannot lift it.
A sword this size is able to break an opponent's sword with a single swing, I believe.

Luka Borscak

Lafayette C Curtis

Luka Borscak

Levente M. · Posted: Mon 26 Jan, 2015 5:20 am Post subject:

It can't be more than 3kg. Anyone can lift that. Big Grin

Swing it too, you don't even have to be fit at all. I'm a good example. I've used big 16th century two handed swords, sure it's slower than a longsword, but still managable. And I'm a computer science student sitting at a desk 24/7. Happy

So any more examples? Maybe some photos? Happy

Also, how's the dynamics? The pivot point for long swords is usually at or around the tip of the blade. What about these swords? Or just two handed type XIIIs in general.
Is it closer to the hilt, or the same as a longsword?