[Torsten F.H. Wilke]

[Torsten F.H. Wilke]

Well, not to throw a wrench in the machine, so to speak, but upon further searching I came across a photo of what reasonably seemed to be a 1540's Southern German "Tapul Brust" harness in the castle of Brescia posessing couters with features very similar to the excavated one in this topic: Small circumferentially roped couters with smooth wing transitions, asymmetry between the inner and outer wing sections, elbow cusp roping, recessed bordering all the way around, and strapped by leathers. And did I mention it was most likely German? (sorry, I couldn't resist, Russ )

This could make it a completely different style of suit, and have given it enough time to fall apart by the latter part of the sixteenth century! What do you guys think? Here is the link, look at the photo seventeenth from the top...

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=11282


Btw, this is one of my all-time favorite style of harness. It invokes a somewhat forboding, awkward eloquence...

[Russ Thomas]

Hi Torsten,

There are some great pieces there, thanks for showing it, I hadn't seen them before and I especailly like barbutas.

Sorry Torsten, I cannot see anything that changes my mind. That is not to say that it cannot be changed, just not with what I have seen so far ! The nearest thing to the shown example that I can see is the picture with the mounted figure with the two foot soldiers in front. The figure on the left has very similar couters as far as I can tell...... but these and the pauldrons are almost certainly Italian

Thanks for pointing out the pictures, there is some great stuff there!

Regards,

Russ

[Torsten F.H. Wilke]

more than welcome...

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

Very similar couters were used in Germany, Italy, and France into the 17th c. The thing that makes the excavated couter so dateable is the flat band that the roping sits on that runs around the 'point' of the elbow. This is one of the earmarks of specificly Italian or French(through the 15th c., many French platemakers were ethnic Italians; was that still true in the second half of the 16th c., I wonder?) manufacture, second half 16th c. See Art, Arms, & Armour, by Robert Held, p. 205, to see some French ones, though two of them are not closed 'bracelets'. One of Wade's might be of this form.

P.S. Russ, that's not silver paint. While I haven't been over to see most of Wade's collection (he occasionally brings something along to the ARS meets) and have not handled this piece, I trust his judgement. This one came from HM Stores c. 1926, if memory serves.

[Russ Thomas]

Hi folks,

Here is the picture that James spoke of. These are all French, and quite similar to the one originally shown.
Thankyou for the information James

Regards,

Russ

[Torsten F.H. Wilke]

Gentlemen, thank you for the details. The bands have it...