| Author |
Message |
Merv Cannon
|
 Posted: Wed 29 Nov, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: Original Medieval Shield Construction |
 |
|
I guess I'm posting this out of frustration ! Let me firstly say how delighted I am with the recent post on Scottish Targaids. http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=8231 ... After 75 replies I feel I have read a book on the subject......( shame there are no dedicated books on the subject ! ) But thats whats great about "myArmoury " ! ....There are some very knowledgeable people who donate such great input.
Now, to this topic......... does anyone know for sure how original heater/kite shields were constructed ? I mean the WOOD ! I realise that not many survive and that the question is rather broad, but considering how many were made throughout history, there doesent seem to be any infomation about the actual construction. There's plenty about the leather and the gesso and the strapping and the decoration, but nothing about the WOOD and how it was curved or joined. All we do now is laminate plywood and glue it and bend it untill it dries, but what if someone wanted to make a "real" shield using original techniques ? I know how Viking shields were made and now Targaids too....but were heaters Plank-Joined ? If so, I dont think they would be very strong that way. Edge butt joints ? Just hide-glued ? Surely not !
I tend to think that perhaps they used the natural curvature of TREES !? Perhaps they were planned into shape from a thicker slab ? Or mabye they were bent from a single greenwood board and allowed to dry that way ?
Does anyone actually know ?? ( I know about the Black Princes Funery Shield and I have a full description of it, but it was just that...a Funery Shield and was quite heavy at three quarters of an inch thick ) Mabye I am just underestimating the strength of hide and animal glues here ? I am sure that there are many more original shields tucked away in museum basements and hanging on private collectors walls. We wont get much out of many museums cause they are too busy exhibiting the display of Carved Dinasoar - Droppings from the Hockey-Pockey Islands !! ( Please excuse my sarcasim ! ) but you know what I'm saying ? So...it just gets back to us "ämature" researchers I guess !
Many of you have some rather rare books and papers, etc and perhaps there is some good info for us shield buffs ?
Thanks for you particapation.
 Attachment: 68.41 KB
Attachment: 51.68 KB
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
|
|
   |
 |
Douglas S
|
| Posted: Wed 29 Nov, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
I have always wondered if the dished round shields of the Viking Age were built in some technique akin to barrel making...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kel Rekuta
|
| Posted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 6:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
So I guess you haven't seen the German book on medieval shields then?
http://www.mittelalter.de/shop/produktkatalog...etail.html
Its a study of several existing medieval kite-ish to heater shapes from the 12th to 14thC. Detailed photos and some xrays too, I think. Plenty of line drawings illustrating fastener placement and layers of material. There is the obligatory section on reconstruction for re-enactors as well. The German seems to be quite readable. (Not that I can do anymore than scan text and hope for some accuracy in translation software.)
One of our German speaking students has my copy at the moment so I can't quote anything from it. However, I am pretty clear on the construction of 14thC heaters as presented. Edge glue-ups with casien glue and parchment shells. It strikes me as "period" fiberglass laminate construction. Rivets hold edgings and straps in place. (strapping is quite different in each example.) Cover that with canvas and gesso, including built up heraldic motifs. 9mm/ 3/4" thickness doesn't sound too far off. Remember this is linden wood. It is very light. In North America, poplar is very similar if a bit coarse grained. I have no idea what might be similar in Oz.
Having puzzled through as much of it as I could, I lent the book with a list of questions to my German student. I hope to have some answers in the new year. It wasn't a terribly expensive book and I enjoyed it. I have no idea whether the authors have any real world academic credentials though. It might be no more accurate than an Osprey book for all I know. 
Cheers!
Kel
|
|
 |
|
|
Kel Rekuta
|
| Posted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 6:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Douglas S wrote: | | I have always wondered if the dished round shields of the Viking Age were built in some technique akin to barrel making... |
Only to the extent of shaping the staves. Its probably more similar to laminate bowmaking.The key element to light, strong construction appears to be lamination with casien glue and parchment or fabric. The synergy between different components enhances strength.
Find a copy of the Shield episode of "Weapons that Made Britain" series by Mike Loades. He worked with an AngloSaxon / Viking period style shield maker in England to create and study some reproductions of dished rounds. High speed photography of various weapons striking the repros is worth the price of admission, as it were. 
I believe the videos are available for purchase from the network that broadcast the series. The series demonstrates good research considering the guy is a fight choreographer doing a series for the general public.
Good Hunting!
Kel
|
|
|
|
|
Merv Cannon
|
| Posted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: Shield construction |
|
|
| Kel Rekuta wrote: | So I guess you haven't seen the German book on medieval shields then?
http://www.mittelalter.de/shop/produktkatalog...etail.html Its a study of several existing medieval kite-ish to heater shapes from the 12th to 14thC. Detailed photos and some xrays too, I think. Plenty of line drawings illustrating fastener placement and layers of material. There is the obligatory section on reconstruction for re-enactors as well. The German seems to be quite readable. (Not that I can do anymore than scan text and hope for some accuracy in translation software.)
Cheers!
Kel |
Thanks Kel...........Im aware of the book.......tried to get one on Amazon Germany, but my schuler deutsch didnt cut it and the order got all screwed up. I think Ive found a way to do it now through another company.
Ah, yes...Limewood/Linden/boxwood.....light and springy to absorb blows............the last blocks here that I saw were like $85 each ! ...and not very big either. Its also the most famous historical wood for carving and detail. Dont know what other woods are equivelent here. So, thats very interresting....they were edge joined and glued after all ! Now I see why they used so much canvas and linings, etc.
Thanks for your input !
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
|
|
|
|
|
Steven H
|
| Posted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Let me know if this summary is basically correct.
1. Make several boards of wood by gluing several planks edge to edge.
2. Lay these on top of each other going in opposite directions.
3. Glue them together?
4. Curve them with a press.
5. Cover with parchment or fabric that is glued on or rivetted.
Kel-
"Rivets hold edgings" I'm not sure what you mean by this.
I was planning on making my own heater later this month, so any help is appreciated.
Thanks.
Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
|
|
|
|
|
Merv Cannon
|
| Posted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steven H wrote: | Let me know if this summary is basically correct.
1. Make several boards of wood by gluing several planks edge to edge.
2. Lay these on top of each other going in opposite directions.
3. Glue them together?
4. Curve them with a press.
5. Cover with parchment or fabric that is glued on or rivetted.
Kel-
"Rivets hold edgings" I'm not sure what you mean by this.
I was planning on making my own heater later this month, so any help is appreciated.
Thanks. |
Hi Steven......... I'm not sure that shield-wood for the medieval period was laminated at right angles....this is true for Migration and Scottish. Perhaps some were. ? But you have addressed my main questions.....How were they curved ?
I largly believe that the way we make then now has nothing to do with the way they were made originally. I dont believe they used a shield curving press !! I know that much study has been done on migration period shields, such as this very well known and highly detailed page..... http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/shield/shield.html by a fellow Aussie But nobody seems to have done much research on the medieval period ( and I dont really know the true contents of " Das Mittelalterliche Ritterschild " ) There is undoubtly reference in some obscure conference paper or somesuch but that does us little good.
This topic may be a bit boring to some because the reproduction shields are fairly easy to make plus shields dont have the glamour of the sword, but Id really like to know how they did the originals. Some shields ( includind Viking and Scottish), had metal rims on the edge and these were what was nailed on or riveted or clipped and nailed.
Cheers
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sean Richards
Industry Professional
Location: San Diego Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 4
|
| Posted: Thu 30 Nov, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: Roman shield |
|
|
Not medieval but here's a pic of some our newest work..
.. 1st C AD Roman
3 layers birch, ash and birch, hide glue
46" x 28" across the face x 24" chord
We stood 800+ lbs of Romans on one.. some creaking for a second or two
I'll be making some late Roman ovals and round shields next week.. planewood mostly
Attachment: 56.43 KB
Sean "Hibernicus" Richards
www.rlqm.com
www.legio-ix-hispana.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kel Rekuta
|
| Posted: Fri 01 Dec, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steven H wrote: | Let me know if this summary is basically correct.
1. Make several boards of wood by gluing several planks edge to edge.
2. Lay these on top of each other going in opposite directions.
3. Glue them together?
4. Curve them with a press.
5. Cover with parchment or fabric that is glued on or rivetted.
Kel-
"Rivets hold edgings" I'm not sure what you mean by this.
I was planning on making my own heater later this month, so any help is appreciated.
Thanks. |
That seems to be the construction method for a curved round except there is a fair bit of bevelling with a spokeshave. I think the parchment contracts to a tight fit while drying. This helps draw in the curve as the parchment may be tightly laced on the back.
Curved heaters are straight up edge/edge glueing with wide parchment bands folded around the edge perimeter. The boards are shaped and glued not pressed. Over that a layer of glued parchment or fabric, then gesso. Lots of rivets clinched over in front under the parchment near the perimeter to hold down the band. I'll see if I can get the book back this weekend. Maybe a review of it will help my memory?
I have experimented with parchment covered dome lids for chests. They cure tightly under tension a bit like a drumhead. The top can be very thin wood for its strength. Once linseed oiled and cured they are also waterproof. Quite remarkable really.
|
|
|
|
|
Steven H
|
| Posted: Fri 01 Dec, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kel Rekuta wrote: |
Curved heaters are straight up edge/edge glueing with wide parchment bands folded around the edge perimeter. The boards are shaped and glued not pressed. Over that a layer of glued parchment or fabric, then gesso. Lots of rivets clinched over in front under the parchment near the perimeter to hold down the band. I'll see if I can get the book back this weekend. Maybe a review of it will help my memory?
|
I'm making a heater so . . .
Is there any simple or easy way to consistently shape the edges to produce the curve?
What is the purpose of the wide parchment band?
Thanks.
Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
|
|
|
|
|
Jared Smith
|
| Posted: Fri 01 Dec, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Speaking of this from a wood worker's perspective...
It seems to me as if bending of wood with steam followed by soaking the cooling seams with hide glue would be a plausible technique of construction.
Edge butt glueups can be very strong if the wood is nicely planed and prepared to mate smooth and square. Large panels and table tops were traditionally done this way (as is most of my household furniture..solid wood.) Face to face glue ups are pretty rugged too due to the large surface area. "End grain" glue ups are disasterously weak and benefit from tenons or dowels. I test scraps of waste remaining after cutting edge glued panels. I generally attempt to split the glued peices at the glue seam with a hatchet. Most of the time I am unable to shear the glue joint.. hatchet vearing from glue and shearing wood to just one side of the glue instead.
Using hide glue in conjunction with "final steam cooling" is also possible and traditional. I do not do that personally but was mentored in basic wood working by a chair maker who does glue at final steaming/ cooling of curved pieces. The water content and heat following steaming can be benificial to strength and penetration of the glue.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
|
|
|
|
|
Steve Grisetti
|
| Posted: Sat 02 Dec, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Roman shield |
|
|
| Sean Richards wrote: | Not medieval but here's a pic of some our newest work..
.. 1st C AD Roman
3 layers birch, ash and birch, hide glue
46" x 28" across the face x 24" chord
We stood 800+ lbs of Romans on one.. some creaking for a second or two
I'll be making some late Roman ovals and round shields next week.. planewood mostly |
Your Roman shield looks great, and seems to have impressive strength. Can you offer some details on how it was constructed? e.g., how thick are the layers; how did you produce the curve, etc?. How would you compare the construction with the Roman period construction?
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
|
|
|
|
|
Jean Henri Chandler
|
| Posted: Thu 07 Dec, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Roman shield |
|
|
| Steve Grisetti wrote: | | Sean Richards wrote: | Not medieval but here's a pic of some our newest work..
.. 1st C AD Roman
3 layers birch, ash and birch, hide glue
46" x 28" across the face x 24" chord
We stood 800+ lbs of Romans on one.. some creaking for a second or two
I'll be making some late Roman ovals and round shields next week.. planewood mostly |
Your Roman shield looks great, and seems to have impressive strength. Can you offer some details on how it was constructed? e.g., how thick are the layers; how did you produce the curve, etc?. How would you compare the construction with the Roman period construction? |
I second that motion. Your shield looks fantastic, very similar to photos I've seen of that famous scutum they found in Egypt. Is it going to have a boss put in or go -bossless?
I have been interested in making authentic shields for a long time. The closest we came was in using some 1/8th inch birch 'doorskins', soaking them in water and gluing them together while strapped to a barrel. Came up with a pretty good shield which was unfortunatley ruined in Katrina.
One of the things I'd run into is that THE most popular of the woods for making shields back in the day (as best i could detemine something like 30% of the shields recovered in Europe depending on your source, from Roman times through the early Medieval) seem to be made of Limewood. This is something we can't get easily in the USA as it only grows in Europe. It's said to be similar to basswood but samples of that I've seen in hobby stoes seem way too light for such hard use, almost like balsa (and it's used in more or less the same way by hobbyists).
What sold me on limewood was an article I read on some European Viking re-enactment site where they claimed to have done a bunch of tests on wooden shields of different types, launching spears, javelins and arrows into them, and they found that the fibers in the limewood tended to grip the penetratring heads of these weapons and stop them in the shield, whereas harder woods like oak would simply split and allow complete overpenetration.
I was also struck in researching how relatively thin most historical shields seem to have been. IIRC most of the Viking shields recovered were in the neighborhood of 3/8" thick around the perimiter to close to 1/2" around the boss. A lot less than those picnic tables carried around by most re-enactment groups like the SCA...
Jean
Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum
Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic