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Keith Larman
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PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2003 8:39 am    Post subject: Sgian by Massey         Reply with quote

I asked Al Massey to make me something quite a few years ago. For those who don't know me, I work on Japanese Style blades. Anyway, this is what he made me, a sgian...

[ Linked Image ]

I don't know much about these things. Anyone want to educate a neophyte on the historic side of the sgian? I didn't ask for historically accurate and I know Al kinda did his own thing with this one. I pretty much just asked Al to do whatever he wanted since I was more interested in simply getting something he wanted to make rather than having him do something to my specs when I wouldn't know a western butter knife from a longsword. Worried Okay, well I'd probably be able to figure that one out, but you know what I mean...

Keith Larman
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2003 12:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Whoa. That's really attractive. Do you know what materials are being used?
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David Wilson




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PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2003 4:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sgian is pretty generic Gaelic for "knife". The main type of Sgian known today is the Sgian Dubh, which is Scottish Highland Gaelic for "Black Knife" -- but as you might notice, not all Sgian Dubh's are actually black. There are some theories as to why the small knife is called a "black knife", the most popular being that the earliest versions (and most modern ones) tended to have blackened wood hilts. There is another theory, that the knives were originally based on weapons intended for "black" (ie Nefarious) purposes, such as back stabbing, assasination, etc. There may be some truth to this, as it is commonly believed that the sgian dubh is related to the earlier sgian achlais, or "armpit knife" -- this knife was worn concealed, usually under the plaid near the armpit. How the sgian achlais became the sgian dubh and moved from armpit to stocking top isn't exactly clear, but there are some nice stories about it -- mainly, that when one Highlander would visit another, he would be fully armed. This was a normal part of Highland culture, and wasn't considered rude at all. However, to prove himself trustable, he would not carry anything concealed, and to prove it he would move his concealed weapons to unconcealed positions -- the "armpit" knife fits nicely into the stocking top. Then, when the British Government forbade the keeping and bearing of arms by the Highlanders, they included rules against concealed arms, so the small knife -- ostensibly non-threatening -- remained in the stocking top as a reminder of the old days when the Highlanders carried arms as a matter of daily routine (of course, how non-threatening the sgian dubh actually is is debateable -- I've heard stories of Highlanders resorting to the "black knife" in the trenches during WWI, to good effect....)
Anyway, it's an interesting story, and probably not too far off the truth, but who knows for sure....
The first Sgian Dubhs appeared possibly as early as the late 1700's, but were not popularly worn with Highland garb until the Victorian era. Suffice it to say, it is nowadays considered a piece of masculine jewelry, properly worn in the stocking top with the kilt.

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

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Keith Larman
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Location: Sunny Southern California
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 237

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2003 4:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for all the info, guys. Cool stuff.

The interpretation of "black knife" as for nefarious deeds sounds awful romantic (i.e., the stuff of mythology rather than the usually more mundane reality). But hey, not my area at all so its all good. Thanks for the background.

Al used birdseye maple for the handle and scabbard. The blade was pattern weld he put together himself but I don't recall the composition. It's not a "refined" shape and finish like I'm used to with the stuff I usually work with, but on the other hand it leaves nothing of a "frilly" feel when you handle it. It is obviously meant for business. Straightforward and to the point, so to speak.

What can I say, I just like stuff guys do one-at-a-time.

Keith Larman
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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2003 5:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great pic , Keith ...... you really captured the steels beauty !

Mac

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Keith Larman
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Location: Sunny Southern California
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Posts: 237

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2003 9:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas McDonald wrote:
Great pic , Keith ...... you really captured the steels beauty !

Mac


Thanks, Mac. I built a "photo box" for shooting tanto and wakizashi. In traditional Japanese blades the grain patterns are different and should be *vastly* more subtle that what most expect compared to western pattern weld. So the box was built to shine the light *juuuuust right* to catch the grain of the steel. The much more deeply patterned steel in my Massey sgian lights up like a christmas tree in that rig.

Keith Larman
http://www.summerchild.com
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Dave Hahn




Location: Toronto, Canada
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PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2003 9:22 pm    Post subject: Hey Keith!         Reply with quote

Hey Keith,

Who's the little one posted as your avatar?

-D

Try not to take yourself too seriously.
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Keith Larman
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Location: Sunny Southern California
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Posts: 237

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2003 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Hey Keith!         Reply with quote

Dave Hahn wrote:
Who's the little one posted as your avatar?

-D


Sarah Keiko Larman, 2 years, 9 months old. My daughter. I love that photo because she's almost always in the exact mood you see in that image...

Keith Larman
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2003 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Hey Keith!         Reply with quote

Keith Larman wrote:
Dave Hahn wrote:
Who's the little one posted as your avatar?

-D


Sarah Keiko Larman, 2 years, 9 months old. My daughter. I love that photo because she's almost always in the exact mood you see in that image...


I saw that photo.. and it made me happy.

Got any more photos of swords to share, Keith? Happy Your work also makes me happy. haha..

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Dave Hahn




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PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2003 9:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Question

it's been two years already?

where does the time go! it seems like yesterday you were just posting on how the baby kept you up.


i wish life would slow down and let me appreciate the scenery!

Blush

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Keith Larman
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Location: Sunny Southern California
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 237

PostPosted: Sun 24 Aug, 2003 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Hey Keith!         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Keith Larman wrote:
Dave Hahn wrote:
Who's the little one posted as your avatar?

-D


Sarah Keiko Larman, 2 years, 9 months old. My daughter. I love that photo because she's almost always in the exact mood you see in that image...


I saw that photo.. and it made me happy.

Got any more photos of swords to share, Keith? Happy Your work also makes me happy. haha..


Yeah, I've been asked to repost stuff on Ron Luciano's katana. That'll I'll try to do later today.

I'm also toying with the idea of starting a thread where I'll post a few "in progress" photos and update it as I go on a blade I'm working on now. Sort of like to give folk an idea of how it progresses, how long it takes, that kind of thing. I've got more time to do photography now that I've got a better rig made for shooting photos and my back has been killing me which means more frequent and longer breaks. So rather than watching cartoons I suppose I could take a few photos... Razz

Keith Larman
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Aug, 2003 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Hey Keith!         Reply with quote

Keith Larman wrote:
I'm also toying with the idea of starting a thread where I'll post a few "in progress" photos and update it as I go on a blade I'm working on now. Sort of like to give folk an idea of how it progresses, how long it takes, that kind of thing. I've got more time to do photography now that I've got a better rig made for shooting photos and my back has been killing me which means more frequent and longer breaks. So rather than watching cartoons I suppose I could take a few photos... Razz

Oh man, I would personally love that. I'm crazy about in-progress shots, and if you did it in sort of "real time" it would really demonstrate the process much more and perhaps even lead to all of us being able to value the work appropriately. I look forward to it, if you're able to swing it.

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David White




Location: Stanardsville VA
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug, 2003 8:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Keith!

Thats a little beauty of a Sgain. I've never owned any of Al's work, but its cool looking and very straight forward.

dave
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