[Emil Andersson]

Aleksei, in the third variation I was actually trying to pull off the parry-by-molinello that Ken Mondschein describes in his newly released book about the Italian spadone. It's not meant to be a static block where I catch the opposing blade, rather a whirling motion where the enemy's sword is beaten to the side. I'm not quite able to do it fluently as part of the third montante rule yet (hence the separation of actions in the video), but I will keep practicing. I'll upload a new video of that once I've tried it some more.

Thanks!

[Aleksei Sosnovski]

parry-by-molinello (AFAIK molinello means a circle or something like this) perfectly describes what I meant, though I don't know what exactly Ken meant by this because I don't have his book. Actually almost any block should be made in motion, statically placing your blade and waiting for an incoming blow is not a good idea. Put on some armor, take a sparring partner and let him bash you hard with some pole and I think you will see why.

You can bash an incoming weapon aside if it comes vertically from above, it works OK. the problem is that vertical strikes are pretty rare because they are too easy to deflect.

If an incoming blow comes at an angle it is best to step under it and beat it into the direction where it already goes to (and maybe a little up). But obviously you need to step to the side to do so.

If for example an incoming blade comes at an angle from your left and you try to beat it aside to the left (where it comes from) it is very likely that the momentum of the incoming blade will be enough to prevent your weapon from covering you. It is especially true if the attacker is stronger and/or has a heavier weapon than you do. In this situation when stepping aside you can put you weapon farther to the side thus making it much more difficult to displace your weapon enough to wound you. On your videos when you block with your weapon to your right you actually keep your blade more to the side with your hands over your head which makes them very vulnerable if you don't move anywhere.

All the above-said is based on my personal experience (mostly of fighting in full armor). I don't want to say that you are doing something wrong. I just try to describe why I do same things slightly differently. It is also worth remembering that what works for me with my weapon against my opponents might not necessarily work for you with your weapon against your opponents and vice versa.

[Emil Andersson]

Yes, a molinello is a circular motion done with the sword, often when attacking. It's a slower motion than a direct strike but it helps to build momentum and can be used to feint, beat or rob the opposing blade of power in mid-strike. That's my take on the theory of it, anyway.

I haven't tried that kind of parrying in bouting against anyone yet, we're a bit wary of engaging in free play with larger swords. My technique is likely quite unrefined, but it should work similarly to the hanging parries used with longswords. Adding footwork to them will make them a lot better, certainly.

[Steven Reich]

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Emil Andersson]

I uploaded another video today, this time of the fourth rule. I perform only one variation of it (and I believe that it's a good one ), first with the montante and then with my larger two-handed sword.

Rule IV

[Daniel Wallace]

as i read over the ideas of montante - it seems that it could be applied to the german sword just as easily - i can't see why it couldn't. as the first videos pointed out these swords ranged in size. i've seen a few in the latter 50in range others in the 65in range so their as long as their german counter part.

there's a few of you out there that have been following along with me too as i've been trying to trace down measurements for montante. mostly their profile and distal tapers. i did get in contact with the curator of armor court from the cleveland museum asking for some info on their montante swords but was directed to their book. honestly i didn't think info of that detail would be published there.


Emily your videos are nicely detailed - i'm still at the beginning stages to understand a lot of the motions of the sword - and it would help if i had a spot to swing something around here without making my neighbors crazy or call the cops

[Steve Hick]

[Bill Grandy]

[Matthew P. Adams]

I think it goes both ways too though.

I was trying to go through the rules with my Lowlander, and the weight and length were getting in the way of actually swinging with intent. I was to worried about the thing getting away from me. Then on a whim I tried them with my PHA greatsword waster. It's 53" and with the steel pommel weighs about 3.5 to 4 lbs. So it's right in that middle ground.

After the 7 lbs and 68" of lowlander, the greatsword felt very quick and agile. I was able to relax and let the drills flow a lot more naturally. Then I transferred the body mechanics to the larger weapon to proof what I was doing and they worked very well.

I believe that when used in fencing the Montante "windmills" quite literally. I would relate the moments to spinning fire poi, obviously not that fast and flashy, but the constant spinning motion is close to what I think a Montante combatent would look like.

[William Carew]

Nice videos Emil! I like some of your interpretations, although a few differ from mine. I've actually got a couple of quite different takes on the rules, both of which work, but look quite different. One of the fun things about Figgy is that there are multiple legitimate and effective ways to interpret the rules.

I agree with those who say the final talho should be a half cut, more like a salute out to a horizontal position than a full cut. You can also (as I do) put more pepper into it by striking that last talho with a moulinet rather than making it a direct cut. Also, in some of the rules, such as III, I'd try to prevent the sword swinging quite so far behind you on the downswing - if you can tighten that motion up, transitioning from a descending cut to an ascending cut from a position closer to Meyer's wechsel or even Fiore's iron door, it will be faster and present a smaller tempo for your opponent to try and exploit - hard to explain, but less arm and more body and hip will do the trick for reversals of direction.

I'm glad to see people talking about rotational cuts (molinello, moulinet, molinete, rownde, runde etc), even with longsword. I incorporate a good deal more round hews in my German longsword work these days, ensuring that every hew can be performed both as a 'direct' cut from a point offline 'charged' position (e.g. vom tag and nebenhut) and also as a 'whirling' rotational cut from a point online position. IMO, if a German longsword fencer can't perform a fluid, effective oberhau, unterhau, zornhau, krumphau, zwerchhau, schielhau and scheitelhau from ochs, pflug and alber (in addition to vom tag), more practice is needed. A lot of people misunderstand moulinets, thinking they only relate to power (and they are powerful, removing any need for less useful 'cocking back' motions), but I'm finding the ability to blend the preparation for an attack with defensive cover and the ability to draw, gauge and exploit a response and feint, pull or change through against an opponent are equally important. Moulinets open up all kinds of deceptive, second and third intention options that are not always so apparent or effective with direct, short amplitude cuts from the shoulder.

[Steve Hick]

[Bill Grandy]

[quote="Matthew P. Adams"]I think it goes both ways too though. [quote]

That's certainly a good point. If I have a student who struggles with techniques, I have them try it on a shorter, lighter weapon first to get the general feel and then have them work their way back up.

[Emil Andersson]

I don't know if this is appropriate for the thread, but I would like to ask any of you who have some experience in free fencing with a two-handed sword, either against a larger, similar or smaller weapon for some advice about how to properly use it. I've tried it out a couple of times but it certainly doesn't feel easy to overcome the slower nature of the weapon even when you do know the motions. Any tips and advice would be quite welcome.

[Matthew P. Adams]

My waster just arrived last Friday, and I am using it as my "cross breadth weapon". A weapon I am unfamiliar with, that I can apply Fiore's principles to. Right now I'm just getting used to it moving with it, and trying to determine how the volte of the sword apply to it.

From what I understand the slowness is counteracted by making smaller movements. Raising from posta breva to posta finestra while stepping offline is a small movement of the body but results in a large change in the angle of the sword to the opponent. I believe that blocking by moving from coda longa up to a hanging guard would be effective.

Also blocks should be beats to the other weapon. You'll need to use the mass of the sword to your advantage by knocking the incoming weapon offline, and continuing that movement with a moulinette (sp) into an attack. Possibly with a step back to gain more time.

Again this is just theory I have been told to apply from my instructor, and a guest speaker at the Boston Sword Gathering, so I have't had the opportunity to practice yet. In the next couple months I will have a chance to use it against the Longsword, but also the other students cross breadth weapons, so spear and sword and shield (possibly a buckler).

I would love to hear how your sparring is going, and where you are having trouble, but also what is working for you!

I am especially excited to try exchange of the thrust with the spear, since I will have the advantage of the cross guard.

[Emil Andersson]

I'm hoping to have some free play against both sword & buckler and the longsword this week, and I'll report back to you with my findings. Despite any hardships I very much love this weapon. It's so much fun simply moving it around, never mind hitting anybody with it.

[Aleksei Sosnovski]

When fighting against shorter weapons your main advantages are length and mass. Don't let them get close or you are dead! You should act aggressively, swinging your weapon so that your opponent cannot deflect the blows and has to retreat. Don't wait for them to attack because you will hardly be able to react with your (relatively) sluggish weapon. In other words, you should not fight with them, you should just beat them! It's very easy to make your opponent run but once he retreats it's very difficult to get him. So montante is primarily a weapon of defense, it can be used offensively only when your opponent cannot run or does not want to run. Well, that is unless you are willing to use your weapon as a javelin :-)

Vertical cuts are the easiest to deflect so they should be avoided. Instead diagonal and horizontal cuts should be preferred. Thrusts are also relatively easily deflected so be careful. However your opponents should be even more careful. It takes considerably more force to deflect a thrust with a two-handed sword. When I first fought with a longsword against a zweihander I was used to deflecting longswords which was easy so I didn't use enough force and got stabbed several times.

I don't think it would be possible to stop a full-force montante cut with a sword and a buckler, but it is possible to stop a two-handed sword with a longsword by stepping forward and receiving the blow on the crossguard before it gains full speed so this is another thing to be aware of.

If an opponent with a short weapon gets close one thing that you can do is block and strike at the same time. Long blade and great mass allow to beat aside incoming blades and continue moving, hitting your opponent. Also pommel and especially crossguard are very effective close-range weapons.

When fighting against another two-handed sword you are basically in the same situation so you can use whatever you like. Thrusts are good, especially one-handed long-range thrusts. I like aggressively beating incoming blows aside rather than using more "static" deflections (such as parry-by-molinello). I also like receiving blows on the crossguard because it is easy and allows to stop even the strongest blows, but my crossguard is already bent because of this habit :-)

Unfortunately I cannot give any advise on fighting against polearms. Since these weapons often have even greater reach you should probably consider halfswording or gripping the ricasso to provide more leverage and wait for an opportunity to get close. Another thing that could work with a sharp sword would be to try to cut or break the haft of the polearm thus rendering it almost useless.

[Emil Andersson]

Thanks, Alexei, for your advice. I'll give it my best shot today, likely against sword & buckler. I usually prefer to remain defensive in my fencing and provoke an action from the opponent to counter, but I suppose I'll have to work on that to become more agressive to suit the two-handed sword better.

[Timo Nieminen]

[Emil Andersson]

I had a short free play session against a longsword fencer today, and I think I performed well given my inexperience with the montante. My opponent was initially very cautious of moving into my swings which let me maintain the distance easily, but he eventually caught up on me which made things harder. I did not apply as much pressure as I could've done, although I'm afraid I would've opened myself up to counter strikes if I had just gone all-out.

I used this technique quite a lot for spacing and beating the opponent's sword: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvDqW_tnzAA. It worked well, but I felt that I was becoming predictable in my use of it.

I feel that making more than a single strike in an attack is harder than it appears to be. Say that I make a descending strike through a molinello which is parried by the opponent. The initiative now favours his smaller and faster weapon. I need to back away to keep him out of distance, which is usually difficult to achieve when he's bearing down on me.

I'm looking forward to practice and experiment some more, though.

Edit: Oh and also, we currently lack the equipment to include the legs as a target in our free play. If he'd have worn some shin guards I would've been all over them.