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Chuck Wyatt
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 Posted: Wed 29 Sep, 2004 9:34 am Post subject: Unique weapon at The Tower of London |
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Greetings All,
I saw this beauty at The Tower of London. It looks to be 3 1/2 to 4 ‘and
The description was fairly vague, not much more than used to puncture amour.
Does anyone have any back history to this two handed war hammer? Was it a one off?
Has anyone seen reproductions? She is very Lovely .
http://home.comcast.net/~c-wyatt/fullhammer.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~c-wyatt/hammerhead.jpg
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Joel Whitmore
Location: Simmesport, LA Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Wed 29 Sep, 2004 11:35 am Post subject: Interesting Pic |
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What an interesting weapon. My first impression is that this looks like a recycled 2-hander! The cross looks very much like the one used in the movie "Braveheart". But what strikes me is the "pole" looks like a sword blade. Chuck was the pole on that thing round or very thick or do you think it could have been a sword in its first life?
Joel
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 29 Sep, 2004 11:45 am Post subject: |
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I'm guessing a sort of one off. If it weren't for that cross I'd think it looked a lot like a bec de corbin (spelling?)
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Chuck Wyatt
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| Posted: Wed 29 Sep, 2004 11:46 am Post subject: |
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The pole was flat and thick, much thicker than a sword.
My guess is the grip and crossguard are made for the weapon but I could easily be wrong, I know very little
about sword construction.
Chuck
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Björn Hellqvist
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Wed 29 Sep, 2004 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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There's a very similar weapon in the British Museum; I saw it there three years ago. I jotted down a few notes, but unfortunately cannot locate them right now.
My sword site
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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Kel Rekuta
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| Posted: Thu 30 Sep, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject: sword axe |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | | I'm guessing a sort of one off. If it weren't for that cross I'd think it looked a lot like a bec de corbin (spelling?) |
I'm sure its a version of the tournament "sword axe" seen in Flos Duellatorum. It might have been a judicial weapon or a specialized "sport" version of a battlefield weapon.
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Chuck Wyatt
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| Posted: Fri 01 Oct, 2004 6:29 am Post subject: |
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specialized "sport" version of a battlefield weapon.
If it is thats one viciuos sport :eek:
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Chuck Wyatt
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| Posted: Fri 01 Oct, 2004 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Sorry ment vicious not viciuos
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Fri 01 Oct, 2004 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Ever seen a boat-car? There are still a few of them around. This reminds me of those, and I'll bet this weapon looks so unusual to us because it didn't catch on for whatever reason. Also reminds me of a Swiss Army knife. The SAK can do lots of things tolerably well, but no single thing exceptionally well. It exchanges specific excellence for general utility. If wonder if this weapon does the same. On the other hand, medieval artwork is full of falchion images and there are precious few surviving falchions or examples of the weapons shown in, say, the M. Bible. It's a strange beast, anyway.
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 01 Oct, 2004 9:03 am Post subject: Re: sword axe |
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| Kel Rekuta wrote: | | Russ Ellis wrote: | | I'm guessing a sort of one off. If it weren't for that cross I'd think it looked a lot like a bec de corbin (spelling?) |
I'm sure its a version of the tournament "sword axe" seen in Flos Duellatorum. It might have been a judicial weapon or a specialized "sport" version of a battlefield weapon. |
Any way you can post or direct me towards a picture?
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 01 Oct, 2004 9:57 am Post subject: |
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From Vadi's Arte Gladiatoria, here's an example of some of the more "exotic" judicial duelling weapons. Talhoffer has some odd ones, too.
Kel, I'd thought the same thing when I saw this weapon, too. It's pretty cool looking.
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 01 Oct, 2004 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Some other very cool weapons from the Talhoffer. It is not known if these were actual weapons that were used, or if they were designs that Talhoffer wanted to see made. Either way, these show some very interesting designs, some of which I'd love to own myself.
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 01 Oct, 2004 11:05 am Post subject: |
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How wild... was it possible that he was just designing "fantasy weapons?" Some of those spikes and hooks look like they would cause more damage to the user then usee...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 01 Oct, 2004 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | | How wild... was it possible that he was just designing "fantasy weapons?" Some of those spikes and hooks look like they would cause more damage to the user then usee... |
While it certainly is possible, I tend not to thinks so, primarily because Talhoffer was a weapons master. He would understand what would be practical and what would be ridiculous. One thing to consider is that maybe there's a certain context that these weapons were intended for. For instance, if I were in full plate, I wouldn't worry about accidents with the spikes on the hilt. It's also possible that they aren't that sharp if casually grazed on accident, but are still tremendously dangerous with a good powerful strike.
I find the "knob" in the center of a couple of the weapons interesting. My guess would be that the ricasso was blunt, and the knob prevented the hand from sliding down to the sharpened area. It may also be that the knob itself was grabbed for half swording, being more comfortable to hold than the thin cross section of a blade.
The pole arms remind me of a lot of Chinese polearmes. And I've always been fascinated with the duelling shields.
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Chuck Wyatt
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| Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2004 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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What was the purpose of judicial duelling weapons? Was it to so neither duellist could be a master of the weapon and keep the duel fair or where they designed to wound and not kill?
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Kel Rekuta
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| Posted: Mon 04 Oct, 2004 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Chuck Wyatt wrote: | | What was the purpose of judicial duelling weapons? Was it to so neither duellist could be a master of the weapon and keep the duel fair or where they designed to wound and not kill? |
No, someone is supposed to die in a judicial duel. :eek: Sometimes the loser would be executed after surviving the actual fight. Talhoffer had several nasty variants of duel scenarios in his works. It had to be a fair fight, with equal equipment, for the most part.
As to Fiore's sword-axe, the images from the Getty version aren't readily available on the web, AFAIK. Check the Knights of the Wild Rose site for a working translation of the Pissani Dossi (Novati) treatise. It doesn't have these plays but it is a good work. http://www.varmouries.com/wildrose/fiore/fiore.html
Cheers!
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