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Gene W
Location: The South Of England Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 116
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 Posted: Wed 01 Dec, 2010 12:49 pm Post subject: Interesting Ottoman Star Twistcore Kindjal Translation help |
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Hi All,
I've been trying without much luck, to translate the missing word from this beautiful Kindjal blade.
As you can see, it says 'Amal ****** 1322' So 'Work of ****** 1904'.
If anyone has any idea what the missing word (name) is, I'd be eternally greatful.
Many Thanks
Gene
 Attachment: 107.36 KB
Last edited by Gene W on Wed 01 Dec, 2010 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gene W
Location: The South Of England Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Wed 01 Dec, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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LOL, still learning how the forum works. Having to add extra pic in second post!
Attachment: 91.1 KB
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Gene W
Location: The South Of England Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Sat 04 Dec, 2010 5:42 am Post subject: |
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BUMP back to first page
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Johan Gemvik
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| Posted: Sat 04 Dec, 2010 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Sorry I don't read Arabic, or is that Persian? But it's a very handsome blade.
"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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Jared Smith
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| Posted: Sat 04 Dec, 2010 10:31 am Post subject: |
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I can't help with reading the inscription, but would like to say thanks for posting this.
The fullers reveal a twisted core ("turkish twist style") center, which, is interesting as an example of Persian pattern welding. All forms of "damascus-wootz/pattern welding/ etch-inlay patterns" were said to have been done, but I don't often see examples of Persian blades with "European style pattern welding" in them.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Gene W
Location: The South Of England Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Sat 04 Dec, 2010 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Hi Johan,
Thanks :)
Now I've had a chance to read a few more threads on these boards, I see that people like the construction side here. So as you've been kind enough to compliment this blade, I'll add some details for your perusal (and others!).
Obviously these swords have a traditional 'roman-esq' look to them and parallels with the Gladius are often drawn. They are usually associated with the Caucasus, but this one is Turkish. The inscription should be Turkish (Arabic characters) but the makers name is proving to be quite a challenge in translating.
For those who like dimensions and weights etc, here is a picture of the sword with figures added.
Attachment: 200.47 KB
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Gene W
Location: The South Of England Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Sat 04 Dec, 2010 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Jared Smith wrote: | I can't help with reading the inscription, but would like to say thanks for posting this.
The fullers reveal a twisted core ("turkish twist style") center, which, is interesting as an example of Persian pattern welding. All forms of "damascus-wootz/pattern welding/ etch-inlay patterns" were said to have been done, but I don't often see examples of Persian blades with "European style pattern welding" in them. |
Hi Jared,
You are very welcome. I'm just adding some technical info on this blade. Hope very much that you enjoy it! :)
As you know, this particular pattern is a very old 'design'. Allegedly used in Europe back into the classical period, supposedly mentioned in norse epics, popular with the ottomans, given many names etc, etc.
Often, on Turkish/Ottoman blades (usually Kilij and yataghan) the pattern is 'larger' occupying a wide band down the centre of the blade. As these blades are polished the result is a lower contrast pattern with usually far larger and fewer stars.
See this excellent example here:
http://www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/s049_full.html
The interesting thing (from my perspective) about seeing this pattern on a Kindjal is that it seems usual (on the few examples I've ever seen) to incorporate it into the fullers and often to etch it to a far higher contrast.
So, what we have here, is a double twistcore in star pattern, with around 80 stars visible in a double row down the blade.
As if that isn't amazing enough, consider how far back this style of pattern welding goes, then consider that this was made in 1904. Very unusually late for a blade of this quality.
Here are a couple of close-ups of the blade. The one showing the end section shows the construction of the blade, with the double twistcore continuing to be just visible into the polished area beyond the fullers. It also shows the additional steel of the sides of the blade and the hardened cutting edge.
Now if I could just decipher the makers name, I'd be happy!
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Gene W
Location: The South Of England Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Tue 07 Dec, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Just in case anyone is working on a translation here. I thought I'd add this tracing of the inscription with the name the right way up (the wording and numerals are opposed). Also it has been suggested that the first word may not be amal.
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This is a standard topic