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Andres M. Chesini Remic
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 33
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Posted: Thu 11 Jun, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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I'm always happy when someone brings this post back to life
As I sayed some months ago, I browsed the files of the history museum of sweden, wich has information on the helmets of both vendel and valsgaarde, but I didn't find anything on the swords...
Are these, in fact, in this museum? If not, where are they?
(Did anyone actually saw them?)
All this question are because I'm interested on the materials and building procedures:
Are the guards made of bronce? brass? gold, perhaps?
What is the cloissone holding? Is it amber? some kind of stone? garnet, maybe?
Is the "cap" of the pommel hilt hollow? Is the tang riveted after the last layer of the pommel hilt, or one of the layers has a hole to cover the riveted end?
Do the flat faces of the hilts have any decoration? (Some pics show a few, but... the others?)
Andres
"El que no viene por donde debiera, no viene a lo que dice - P. B. Palacios ~ Almafuerte"
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Matthew Bunker
Location: Somerset UK Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 483
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Posted: Fri 12 Jun, 2009 12:37 am Post subject: |
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Andres,
I was lucky enough to spend a couple of weeks in Sweden and Denmark three years ago and got to visit a lot of museums.
There are a few select items from the Vendel/Valsgarde burials in the National Musuem in Stockholm, in the 'Gold Room' down in the basement. Unfortunately, security is very tight there and photography is not allowed so I've got no record of those.
There are a few items in the Gustavianum Museum in Upsalla, which I've got photos of but the vast majority of the Vendel/Valsgarde collection is in the purpose built museum at Gamla Uppsala, next to the King's Mounds. Again, photography is not allowed within the museum but I'm afraid that temptation proved too great...especially as I had the whole gallery to myself. The pictures I've got aren't brilliant (the display cases are very well lit and highly reflective) but, as long as the site owners here don't mind, I'm happy to put them up here.
I do have some knowledge as to the construction questions that you ask but I'll eave them for Paul to answer as his will be much more informative.
"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Matthew Bunker
Location: Somerset UK Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 483
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Posted: Fri 12 Jun, 2009 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Here's one shot that should be okay to post, taken with museum permission. Shows of fthe combination of stamped gold sheet and silver gilt elements, as well as the garnets in the pommel cap.
You can clearly see that the pommel cap iteself is hollow to allow for the head of the tang.
Attachment: 85.12 KB
"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Victor Genke
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Posted: Sat 24 Jul, 2010 12:59 pm Post subject: Migration Period Sword from the Romano-Germanic Museum |
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Below are the photos of the migration period ring sword that I took in the Romano-Germanic Museum in Cologne, Germany. Note the construction of the scabbard.
The inscription said:
Das Ringknaufschwert stammt aus einem Kriegergrab des fränkischen Friedhofs von Bad Wünnenberg-Fürstenberg.
Die aus verschiedenen Werkstoffen (Holz, Leder, Fell, Hanfschnur) gearbeitete Schwertscheide hatte sich im Boden so gut erhalten, dass sie rekonstruiert werden konnte.
Beim Nachbau der Schwertscheide im Rahmen eines Forschungsprojektes entdeckten die Restauratoren die zeitgenössischen Herstellungstechniken wieder.
2. Hälfte 6. Jahrhundert
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Matthew Bunker
Location: Somerset UK Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 483
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Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2010 6:20 am Post subject: |
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Lovely!
If you've got higher res copies of the scabbard pictures, could I ask you to email them to me please? Bigger the better.
Thanks
Matt
"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Artis Aboltins
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Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2010 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Matthew Bunker wrote: | Lovely!
If you've got higher res copies of the scabbard pictures, could I ask you to email them to me please? Bigger the better.
Thanks
Matt |
Me as well! Any information about the scabbards is really worth getting as they are really interesting and often overlooked part of the gear...
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Matthew Bunker
Location: Somerset UK Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 483
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Posted: Fri 06 Aug, 2010 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Artis Aboltins wrote: |
Me as well! Any information about the scabbards is really worth getting as they are really interesting and often overlooked part of the gear... |
I make 'em, specialising in late roman and migration era scabbards and sheaths.
"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Artis Aboltins
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Posted: Fri 06 Aug, 2010 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Matthew Bunker wrote: | Artis Aboltins wrote: |
Me as well! Any information about the scabbards is really worth getting as they are really interesting and often overlooked part of the gear... |
I make 'em, specialising in late roman and migration era scabbards and sheaths. |
Well I also make the scabbards, and the more I studdy migration era ones, the more I am fascinated with them...
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Victor Genke
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Posted: Mon 09 Aug, 2010 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Matthew,
Artis,
I've sent you the original photos.
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Matt Corbin
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Posted: Mon 09 Aug, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Victor Genke wrote: | Matthew,
Artis,
I've sent you the original photos. |
Could we possibly get those posted here on the forum? Maybe in a smaller size?
“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
- R. Ewart Oakeshott
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Artis Aboltins
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Posted: Mon 09 Aug, 2010 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Matt Corbin wrote: | Victor Genke wrote: | Matthew,
Artis,
I've sent you the original photos. |
Could we possibly get those posted here on the forum? Maybe in a smaller size? |
The smaller ones are already there - a couple of posts upwards . Thank you again for the photos, Victor.
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Matt Corbin
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Posted: Mon 09 Aug, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm an idiot
For some reason I was thinking there were more that hadn't been posted yet.
“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
- R. Ewart Oakeshott
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Matthew Bunker
Location: Somerset UK Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 483
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Posted: Tue 10 Aug, 2010 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Many thanks Victor. Excellent and useful.
"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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David Huggins
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Posted: Tue 10 Aug, 2010 1:16 am Post subject: |
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Matthew Bunker wrote: | Artis Aboltins wrote: |
Me as well! Any information about the scabbards is really worth getting as they are really interesting and often overlooked part of the gear... |
I make 'em, specialising in late roman and migration era scabbards and sheaths. |
And very nice they are Matt
Dave
and he who stands and sheds blood with us, shall be as a brother.
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Victor Genke
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Posted: Tue 10 Aug, 2010 2:09 am Post subject: |
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Matt Corbin wrote: | Could we possibly get those posted here on the forum? |
Hi Matt,
One more photo of rare objects from the same museum: Migration Period Gothic warrior's helmet, shield boss, buckle and sword scabbard, from the Black Sea region:
Attachment: 73.76 KB
Gothic warrior's helmet, shield boss, buckle and sword scabbard.
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Martin Fasching
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Posted: Wed 05 Jan, 2011 7:03 am Post subject: Bad Wünnenberg-Fürstenberg |
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@ Viktor Genke: would you please send me the original pictures from the scabbard to? I reconstuct a spatha from the early 7th century and found this type of sheath decoration on a corresponding piece from Aubing (Germany), wich fits perfectly to my project. Your pictures would be more than usefull.
Greetings from Austria,
Martin Fasching
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Johan Gemvik
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Posted: Fri 03 Jun, 2011 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Migration Period Sword from the Romano-Germanic Museum |
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Many thanks Victor, those are some excellent photos showing the scabbard construction layers -wood, leather, string for decoration and then wrapped with glued linen. That looks like casein glue lamination as it gets glossy like that. That's not often seen. Giebigs diagrams of similar finds shows a more oval blade recess than this straight cut that's very common in modern reproductions. Perhaps both types were in use at the time.
Very interesting that the original scabbard is reasonably intact also given the age, you can even see the linen fabric in some small remaining sections.
"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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Ian Hutchison
Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 625
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Posted: Fri 03 Jun, 2011 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Victor Genke wrote: | Matt Corbin wrote: | Could we possibly get those posted here on the forum? |
Hi Matt,
One more photo of rare objects from the same museum: Migration Period Gothic warrior's helmet, shield boss, buckle and sword scabbard, from the Black Sea region: |
Victor, thanks for the photographs. Do you remember anything more about the helmet? Do you have any other photos? I haven't seen that one before.
'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Victor Genke
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Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Hi Ian,
The inscription said:
Ostgotische Waffen
8 Schwertscheidenbeschlag aus Gold mit granatbesetztem Mundband. Fundort: Kertsch.
9 Helm mit Silberbesatz und edelsteinverzierung. Fundort: Südrußland.
10 Schildbuckel mit Nachahmungen von völkerwanderungszeitlichen Münzen. Fundort: unbekannt.
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Victor Genke
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Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Here is another photo of the helmet:
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Gothic helm
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