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Steven Boeckel
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 Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: Rapiers used by the French Musketeers circa 1625 |
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I am new to the forum and have not been able to find answers to the following questions. I am interested to know if the french musketeers circa 1625 were issued a standard rapier or did they carry a rapier of their own personal choice? Also, did they prefer a cup hilt design or the swept hilt style? Also does anybody know the swordsmith who developed the clam shell cup hilt rapiers used by the musketeers in the 1973/74 movies the Three and Four Musketeers with Oliver reed and Michael York? Are functional replicas of these weapons available anywhere? Any help with these questions will be greatly appreciated...Thanks in advance.
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Vincent Le Chevalier
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| Posted: Sat 07 Apr, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Rapiers used by the French Musketeers circa 1625 |
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Hello!
| Steven Boeckel wrote: | | I am new to the forum and have not been able to find answers to the following questions. I am interested to know if the french musketeers circa 1625 were issued a standard rapier or did they carry a rapier of their own personal choice? Also, did they prefer a cup hilt design or the swept hilt style? |
I have a book here (Les armes blanches : sabres et épées, by Dominique Venner) which states that the first mention of an official regulation about swords in the French army appears in a letter from Louvois, written in 1679. The letter tells how the king decided to replace the weapons of his cavalry by what was called "sabres" then. Apparently the meaning of "sabre" was just a sword able to strike with edge and point... The king ordered a good quantity of swords to this effect, made at Solingen. They were a form of walloon sword, a sturdy design with a quite simple hilt.
Since the musketeers fought on horseback as well, they must have used these, but later than the period you are interested in. Earlier the weapons were left to the appreciation of the captains... However, it's likely in my opinion that the musketeers did carry such kind of sword in battle earlier. And of course, since many musketeers were noblemen, they may well have had personal rapiers for civil life... And the design of these must have been just as varied as the tastes of their owner.
In my opinion, a swept hilt rapier is more likely at this time in France, from what I have seen in illustrations and museums. But a cup-hilt from Spain is totally possible as well...
Regards
--
Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
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Peter Bosman
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| Posted: Sat 07 Apr, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Rapiers used by the French Musketeers circa 1625 |
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| Vincent Le Chevalier wrote: | walloon sword, a sturdy design with a quite simple hilt.
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The 'walloon' is so alike that could be confused with a 'scottish' mortuary sword. I write 'scottish' as it may be a design transferred there from the Low Countries as the dutch king William was king of scotland too.
It is a typical horseman's arm although several rulers of the Low Countries fitted their whole army out with it.
Not quíte a rapier however...
Btw, it always surprises me that musketeers are só associated with a sidearm although their name is rather clearly pointing to a fírearm 
Peter
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David Donovan
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| Posted: Sat 26 Jan, 2008 1:13 am Post subject: Good musketeer sources? |
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I'm not sure if reviving old threads is the preferred way of doing things, but I was recently pondering a similar question and found this thread through the forum search and thought I'd post here rather than starting a new topic.
I recently purchased a nice musketeer tabard through the marketplace here, and then thought to myself "Now I need a rapier to go with it." But then I stopped and thought "Wait. Really? A rapier? Is that right?" It seemed the natural assumption based on years of images from movies and books and old Tom & Jerry cartoons from my childhood... but this thread confirms my suspicions that they might have actually carried something else, especially on the battlefield (But maybe a rapier off the battlefield? Or even a smallsword later on?).
So I thought I'd ask if there are any recommended books or internet sources about the equipment/uniforms of the French musketeers, particularly one that shows the changes over time. I've browsed around a bit, but everything I've found tended to be more focused on organization/history rather than armament/uniforms.
| Quote: | | Btw, it always surprises me that musketeers are só associated with a sidearm although their name is rather clearly pointing to a fírearm |
I was thinking the same thing, that if I wanted to be truly original I would show up as a musketeer actually carrying a musket (collective gasp!) .
"Do something meaningful in this meaningless world."
Takasugi Shinsaku (1839-1867)
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Anders Backlund
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| Posted: Sat 26 Jan, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Wait, so the musketeers didn't use rapiers as a standard sidearm? 
Way to break one of my last illusions, you guys!
The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.
"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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This is a standard topic