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George Hill




Location: Atlanta Ga
Joined: 16 May 2005

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PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 10:25 pm    Post subject: So what did Europeans do with their swords at home?         Reply with quote

So I come home from a long day out in the year 900, 1100, 1300, 1500, and 1600. I'm of a class that allows/requires me to carry a sword around. I get home, I take off my sword. What do I do with it?

I've been reading about hanging them over the bed in Icelandic Sagas, How would that be done? (If anyone knows...)

What about in the later periods? Hang the sword belt off a peg perhaps? I wouldn't think they would stand it up in a corner. There was a movie on Shakespeare's life, (Quite fictional mind you) where there is a comment about a bad servant who did not hang up his master's sword. It got me thinking about this issue.

I'm told the Japanese horizontal sword rack was used back in the old days. So what's the European do?

So when I'm indoors, at home, at the castle, or shieldhall, where does my sword go?

Oh, I'm putting this in historical, as it's a question on historical objects for storage, even if not weapons. I think this is the right fourm.

To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 11:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote



All kidding aside. I always imagined the sword was taken out of its sheath for storage, cleaned and stuck in a cabinent as some illustrations show with armour.

RPM[/i]
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Nick Trueman





Joined: 27 Mar 2006

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PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 1:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi

Probably treated like how a modern firearm owner would treat there weapon. Wipe it down and store it in a safe but yet handy place.
If the sword has not left the sheath then maybe a quick wipe of the hilt ( ferrous) with rag oil ,sheep's wool ect.

Remember also a sword handled on a regular basis will keep quite bright with constant hand friction ( that sounds bad but I couldnt think of any other way to put it) As long as it gets a nice wipe down later to remove skin acids.

As for hanging a sword in the viking age, have a look at some reconstructed viking long huts, there are lots of places to hang a sword.

personally I keep my swords in there scabbards (wood/leather, linen liner) inside a reconstruction of a viking chest. I keep them oiled with lanolin spray ( this version doesnt go greasy sticky like some do). And check them once a fortnight.

Cool

Nick
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Axel Pettersson




Location: Göteborg, Sweden
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 3:31 am    Post subject: Re: So what did Europeans do with their swords at home?         Reply with quote

George Hill wrote:


I've been reading about hanging them over the bed in Icelandic Sagas, How would that be done? (If anyone knows...)



Seems like a good idea when clan feuds was considered sport.
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John Cooksey




Location: NW Ark
Joined: 15 Nov 2003

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PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 11:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a darned good question.
I imagine that a lot depends on the role of the sword in your life. Is it your only sword? Or is it one of the many that you could pick, depending on the "day's usage"?
If it's an arming sword or the like, used for battle but not as an everyday "accessory", I bet it would get stored with or close to your armor.
A riding sword or a rapier, maybe beside the bedding?

In my house, at least, the swords do stand in corners. And hang on horizontal racks in multiple rooms, and one short sword even sometimes lays across a bedside table.
The guns are smaller, for the most part, so they go under seat cushions, under bed pillows, and in handy drawers beside the desk. (grin)

I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 12:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From the Codex Manesse, 13th c. See this thread for more info on the CM:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ht=manesse



 Attachment: 107.67 KB
manesse.jpg


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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George Hill




Location: Atlanta Ga
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
From the Codex Manesse, 13th c.


Thank you Sean, that is just the sort of thing I was hoping for. (Though I'm certainly interisted in seeing more examples/accounts if you or anyone else has some more.)

To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, this is very cool. How often do we find an elegant, historically accurate solution for less than $1 in materials and maybe ten minutes of work? Cut dowel. Drill hole. Insert dowel. Hang sword.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Steven H




Location: Boston
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Yeah, this is very cool. How often do we find an elegant, historically accurate solution for less than $1 in materials and maybe ten minutes of work? Cut dowel. Drill hole. Insert dowel. Hang sword.


Step 2: Try explaining this to landlord Big Grin

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 1:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steven H wrote:
Sean Flynt wrote:
Yeah, this is very cool. How often do we find an elegant, historically accurate solution for less than $1 in materials and maybe ten minutes of work? Cut dowel. Drill hole. Insert dowel. Hang sword.


Step 2: Try explaining this to landlord Big Grin


That's what wood putty and drywall compound are for!

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 3:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a little older time frame, but we have the sword storage example of Dionysius II, tyrant of Sicily, as demonstrated to his buddy, Damocles:

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Peter Bosman




Location: Andalucia
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Mar, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Yeah, this is very cool. How often do we find an elegant, historically accurate solution for less than $1 in materials and maybe ten minutes of work? Cut dowel. Drill hole. Insert dowel. Hang sword.


I live in an old farm, 'cortijo', that was established well over 200 years ago and we have a about a dozen sticks of varying thickness sticking out (hence the expression?) of walls.
When building stables we built the tackroom using the same idea with poles to hang all and sundry from. For the saddles we used rough fence round poles. Same thing the garage.

My bows and swords hang from wooden pegs intended for wooden curtain rails.

HC
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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PostPosted: Sat 03 Mar, 2007 8:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:
This is a little older time frame, but we have the sword storage example of Dionysius II, tyrant of Sicily, as demonstrated to his buddy, Damocles:
http://www.ackland.org/tours/images/westall-lg.JPG

By throwing it in the air, and hoping it stays there? Happy Perhaps it may have worked, as Newton hadn't discovered the law of gravitation yet Wink
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Mar, 2007 11:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeroen Zuiderwijk wrote:
Steve Grisetti wrote:
This is a little older time frame, but we have the sword storage example of Dionysius II, tyrant of Sicily, as demonstrated to his buddy, Damocles:
http://www.ackland.org/tours/images/westall-lg.JPG

By throwing it in the air, and hoping it stays there? Happy Perhaps it may have worked, as Newton hadn't discovered the law of gravitation yet Wink

Actually, it was suspended by a horsehair, as related by Cicero in the story of The Sword of Damocles.

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Mar, 2007 3:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:
Jeroen Zuiderwijk wrote:
Steve Grisetti wrote:
This is a little older time frame, but we have the sword storage example of Dionysius II, tyrant of Sicily, as demonstrated to his buddy, Damocles:
http://www.ackland.org/tours/images/westall-lg.JPG

By throwing it in the air, and hoping it stays there? Happy Perhaps it may have worked, as Newton hadn't discovered the law of gravitation yet Wink

Actually, it was suspended by a horsehair, as related by Cicero in the story of The Sword of Damocles.


The whole " point being " that life can end at any moment whether you have or don't have a sword hanging by a horse air over your head. It also meant to live every moment as if it is your last and I guess it's also taking philosophy to a practical extreme.

Most of the time " life " or rather " death " was hanging there all the time even if death is perceived as being a surprise out of the blue when it happens. Most of the time we avoid thinking about it and live as if we would be around forever. Eek! Laughing Out Loud

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Peter Bosman




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PostPosted: Sun 04 Mar, 2007 12:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The sword of Damocles is a stylish representation of 'Shit Happens'.

In Latin two appearantly contradictory sayings cover the same thing from opposite angles
- memento mori
- carpe diem

One can put the phenomena into a large scientific frame and then it is called a Complex Adaptive System. This explains why shit happens Wink

HC
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Jim Mearkle




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PostPosted: Sun 04 Mar, 2007 8:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
hanging by a horse air over your head


Since horses' diet is mostly cellulose, the idea of 'horse air' hanging over one's head is slightly icky!

Peter Bosman wrote:
-memento mori


The full quote would be 'Tempus fugit, memento mori." or "time flies, remember death!

I suspect that may be more Catholic Latin than Roman.

Jim
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Peter Bosman




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PostPosted: Mon 05 Mar, 2007 12:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jim Mearkle wrote:

The full quote would be 'Tempus fugit, memento mori." or "time flies, remember death!

I suspect that may be more Catholic Latin than Roman.


Very apt though, whoever the source.

Peter
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Lafayette C Curtis




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PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar, 2007 3:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jim Mearkle wrote:
Peter Bosman wrote:
-memento mori


The full quote would be 'Tempus fugit, memento mori." or "time flies, remember death!

I suspect that may be more Catholic Latin than Roman.


Well, it was originally Roman. But in the Roman context it meant "enjoy life while you can before you die," unlike the brooding melancholy of the Christianzied version.
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Peter Bosman




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PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar, 2007 1:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In the process of applying for a weapons permit I read up on the applicable laws. Since I want flintlock arms this had proven to be very interesting.
The present law on arms was first passed as a royal decree in 1884.
That law was a modernised rewrite of a far older law which was a rewrite of... whereas the basic structure of it did not change and goes back to the earliest wide-spread appearance of the arquebus.
This in effect means that the structure of the present day permit system applied over here was thought of before Columbus thought of sailing west to reach the east Laughing Out Loud

Now as to the thread of the topic I tripped over another interesting detail. The common spanish word for a cupboard with doors is 'armario', which has its origins in a sturdy lockable cabinet for arms which also was obligatory before the americas were 'discovered'.

Peter
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