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Sam Shifley




Location: chattanooga, tn
Joined: 16 Dec 2006

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed 31 Jan, 2007 5:58 pm    Post subject: My soon-to-be first purchase         Reply with quote

thought i would bring this question to the most qualified people. so, here goes. long interest in arms and armor has finally persuaded me to make my first "legitimate" sword purchase. i am looking for your feedback. Albion has obviously caught my attention (and possibly my wallet) with their quality and research. they are a no-brainer decision to me. however, the question has to do with Angus Trim's products. i have read the reviews here on myArmoury, so that bit of research is done. the price difference from Albions product line is what interests me. is an Angus Trim a comparable purchase with regards to a similar sword from Albion's Next Generation Line? i definately want to purchase from Albion at some point, but the base prices i am seeing for Angus Trim is a bit more appealing at the moment. thanks for your input.
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Gabriel Lebec
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Jan, 2007 6:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam,

If you've read the reviews already and done a forum search, then it's pretty much up to you to decide what your goal and budget are. ATrims are well regarded and trusted, generally considered a very good value (esp. re: performance), and differing from higher-end swords principally in terms of finish and historical accuracy. They're still far more accurate and aesthetically appropriate than 99% of the wallhangers and supermall/catalog junk out there though, so while you may end up hankering for something nicer down the line, there's nothing to lose if you decide you like the look of any specific ATrim sword.

Again, it's up to you to figure out exactly what you want out of a sword and how much you're willing to spend, and I strongly suggest you give yourself a healthy couple of months of study and myArmoury reading before dropping any significant money on a sword. But if you would just like to enter the market asap, an Angus Trim would be a great start.

Cheers,
GLL
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Jan, 2007 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam,
I'm sure you'll get lots of answers. Happy Where Albion really shines is in historic appearance and fit and finish. Gus Trim swords are supposed to be cutting machines, and the one Atrim blade I've cut with cut like a demon. But the finish is nowhere near as nice as Albion. Atrim fullers can look especially rough. Albion swords also look much more (to my eye) like historic weapons. Since Albion casts their fittings, it's easier to get those subtle historic shapes in the guard and pommel.

Also, keep in mind that it may be hard to find comparable models in both lines. While both companies produce the many of same Oakeshott Types, they might be nowhere close in terms of specs or what they are supposed to replicate.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Chris Lampe




Location: United States
Joined: 07 Mar 2005

Posts: 211

PostPosted: Wed 31 Jan, 2007 8:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam,

I've only handled one Albion and one Atrim but I've spent almost two years reading reviews and people's thoughts on both brands and the first two posts really pretty much cover it.

You are fortunate to have two such fine products to choose from and you won't go wrong with either. Just be sure and post pics when you get it!! Big Grin
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Eric Allen




Location: Texas
Joined: 04 Feb 2006

Posts: 207

PostPosted: Wed 31 Jan, 2007 9:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If I was in your shoes, and I had already decided that I was sooner-or-later going to get an Albion, then I would skip the Atrim, save my money and just get the Albion.

But, really, as all these other fine folks have said, its up to you and what you want:
Albion: Pricy, pretty much can't beat the authenticity short of an actual antique, absolutely beautiful.
Atrim: Less expensive, built mostly for the enthusiast to slice-n-dice, not as historically-accurate.

So, its really up to you, and dependent on how much you're willing to spend, what you want in a sword, and what you plan on doing with it (WMA practice, test cutting, bragging rights, decoration, etc.)
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Edward Hitchens




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Feb, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam,

Just to sum up what everyone else has said, the Albion and Atrim exhalt different variables from one another. In other words...

Albion sword: "My owner has impeccable tastes in historical accuracy. As such, I was designed to look and feel like historical originals. I am also intended to be wielded with the same techniques as the originals in their heyday, even though I don't replicate any one particular sword. A lot of maticulate research and labor went in to my design. Also, I will only be made in limited numbers, hence my high price tag. But the virtues, goals, and standards of the company that made me -- as well as its clientele -- adds to my exclusitivity."

Atrim sword: "I'm more of a utilitarian sword. My whole idea is to spend more time test-cutting than hanging on a wall and looking pretty; but that's not to say I don't look pretty. My owner is more concerned with performance and how well I cut rather than how I look with his Renfaire costume, though my blade design replicates those from history. I was made by a very reputable swordmaker here in the USA. The amount of R&D that went in to me probably wasn't as extensive as Albion which is one of the reasons why my price tag is a little easier on my owner's budget."

You really can't go wrong with either maker. Check the reviews section on this site and don't forget to consider other makers as well. Happy Do let us know which make and model you decide upon!

"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Feb, 2007 9:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Go to www.christianfletcher.com to find some ATrim swords that have been significantly dressed up (for more money, of course)

Also, look at the highly regarded Arms and Armor website www.arms-n-armor.com to see great swords with prices generally in between ATrims and Albions.
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Sean Belair
Industry Professional




Joined: 08 Aug 2006

Posts: 147

PostPosted: Thu 01 Feb, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was looking into A-Trims until I got a close look at the blades. They are vaguely historical but the hilts are terrible. To get nice hilt fittings you would have to spend more money and go to Christian Fletcher. At the end it still won’t compare to an Albion.
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Feb, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Belair wrote:
I was looking into A-Trims until I got a close look at the blades. They are vaguely historical but the hilts are terrible. To get nice hilt fittings you would have to spend more money and go to Christian Fletcher. At the end it still won’t compare to an Albion.


I wouldn't call the hilts "terrible". IMHO, stripped down to basics, and functional would be more descriptive.
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Sam Shifley




Location: chattanooga, tn
Joined: 16 Dec 2006

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu 01 Feb, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thanks for all the very quick, informed advice/opinions. i realize a huge aspect of my dilemma is having never seen firsthand or handled either of the above mentioned makers products. historical accuracy ranks highly with me as does the overall fit and finish of a piece. bearing this in mind, i lean strongly towards Albion. however, if down the line, i want to go out and do some cutting, it sounds as if an Angus Trim would do well for me.......and not have me losing sleep over marring the finish on a limited production run item.

once again thanks for all of the advice. it is greatly appreciated by this newbie.

and Chris, i will be sure to post pics of my new purchase as soon as possible.
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Nicholas Zeman





Joined: 09 May 2005

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Thu 01 Feb, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

1. Albions and Atrims are both CNC milled from steel using stock removal. i can't remember if Albion ever released their steel type and hardening process, but I'm pretty sure Atrim uses 5160 and a through hardening and tempering process.

2. Atrim hilts are threaded with a hex bolt, very secure but not "historical". Albion uses a traditional peened and permanently fixed hilt assembly. Atrim has a line of peened hilt swords coming out, however...

3. As far as cutting performance goes, it will depend on the sword. Every Atrim is designed for good handling and performance in cutting, I don't think I have ever heard anyone complain about any Atrim being a lousy cutter. I have heard a couple of complaints about Albions not cutting so well, but they have generally been non-cutting oriented sword types, so there is really no fair comparison here.

4. Durability: this is a little variable as well, I can attest first hand to the high level of durability of Atrim swords. I have seen my own take abuse without a scratch (unintended abuse) that I would not expect even a fine custom to endure. I have heard some reports (all publicly aired) about slight chipping and nicking on Albion sword edges (one such report I posted on SFI) where an Atrim received none. None of the nicks or chips were major, and neither were they unexpected considering the mediums they encountered. If you search on the subject at SFI you will find a comparison I did between an Atrim and Albion where I was less surprised at the slight damage to the Albion than the lack of the same on the Atrim.

5. Fit and finish: The Albion swords are very attractive, and here there is no doubt that Albion puts more detail and resources into their fittings, grips, polish, and finish. This does not mean that Atrims don't have nice furniture, it's just that they're not as detailed or necessarily historically authentic. Albion will cost a lot more because of this.

6. Handling: Well, this will depend on the sword. I have owned 3 Atrims at one time or another (I regret deeply selling 2 of them) and they all handled very nicely. I have handled 3 Albions and I own one, it also handles very well, The tendency in my own experience is that the Atrims are on the lighter side of the spectrum, which really spice up the handling, but the Albions have more blade presence and were a little weightier. But this is highly subjective and depends on the model.


So there are all of the observations of both manufacturers from a guy who has owned both and handled both with relative frequency. I haven't seen all the models, I haven't handled them all, but my own experience is that they are both well made, the more expensive swords from Albion have higher levels of polish, fittings, and a historical hilt construction, the less expensive Atrims are solid, handle great, are extremely durable, and great cutting swords. I would vote for getting one of each. If you must have historical accuracy above all else, spend the extra money and get an Albion. If you'd like to spend less and still get an excellent sword to practice or cut with, an Atrim will treat you very nicely, and you won't regret buying it.
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Greyson Brown




Location: Windsor, Colorado
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Feb, 2007 8:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam Shifley wrote:
i lean strongly towards Albion. however, if down the line, i want to go out and do some cutting, it sounds as if an Angus Trim would do well for me.......and not have me losing sleep over marring the finish on a limited production run item.


I have not heard of many problems with the finish on Albion blades being damaged. If you were to pick up some scratches, they can be cleaned up with a gray (extra fine) Scotch-Brite pad, which is what Albion uses to establish that finish in the first place.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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