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Garrett Hazen




Location: California
Joined: 30 Aug 2006

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject: multiplying trebuchet plans         Reply with quote

could you multiply the plans of a trebuchet to create a bigger yet still successful trebuchet?

maybe on like this: http://www.trebuchet.com/kit/warwolf/

thanks

Learn to obey before you command--Solon of Athens


Last edited by Garrett Hazen on Tue 23 Jan, 2007 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Eric Allen




Location: Texas
Joined: 04 Feb 2006

Posts: 207

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 10:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A couple years ago, I lurked the message boards over at trebuchet.com (now the message boards are at thehurl.com??)

If I recall, something like this came up occasionally when someone wanted to scale up a small trebuchet they built (like from golf ball-slinger to bowling ball slinger or what-have-you). I think the common advice was as trebs get bigger, the proportions change--kind of a "diminishing returns" like scenario, where a treb that can throw a golf ball heckuva-far simply scaled up might not work as well as expected with a bowling ball. BUT: the physics remains the same, and you can alter the counterweight, arm length, sling length, and release pin angle when you make the big-sized treb.

And there's the inherent problem of making something bigger. Bigger means more weight, more force, and more need for support and strength.

So if you simply scaled up the size of the Warwolf trebuchet you linked to, it would certainly throw a bolder, dead cow, heads-of-your-enemies, just fine. Wether it could throw your chosen ammunition as far as what would otherwise be possible is iffy. BUT if you understand the engineering behind it, you could make changes to get it up to what is described historically. Maybe.[/i]
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Malcolm A




Location: Scotland, UK
Joined: 22 Mar 2005

Posts: 89

PostPosted: Tue 23 Jan, 2007 2:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello guys,
Interesting discussion you started here.
I recall a TV program some years ago on UK TV in which various people attempted to recreate what had been made in years gone by.
In one program, a multinational team got to gether to build two full size trebuchets based on the Warwolf of Edward 1st of England.
They also created a typical castle wall to fire at.
I am guessing they used scaled up plans PLUS an awful lot of ingenuiety and also their knowledge of medieval building techniques. Certain guys in the team were picked for that reason as they wanted to truly recreate the war engine.
They managed to hurl quite substantial rocks over 100m to literally smash into their replicatedwall; it was awesome especially as they were able to adjust the aim of the engine as well to some extent.
This site gives some narrative of the project; http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/trebuchet/builds01.html

As an aside, during the rpogram they also showed a clip of film of someone else's trebuchet which was used to hurl upright pianos across a field.

It is probably pretty safe to say that the project needed all the people there, a lot of knowledge and a high degree of concern for safety.

Cheers
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Garrett Hazen




Location: California
Joined: 30 Aug 2006

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Tue 23 Jan, 2007 3:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey guys!

Thank you Eric, that was pretty profound information, and I understand what you mean. I really dont have a huge knowlage of war engines and how things were built in the middle ages, but I understand what you mean about upgrading the Warwolf into a larger object. Im sure its not rocket science, but I should probably study harder about the physics and building techniques behind trebuchets. Plus, I live in California, so I doubt i would have much place to use it anyways. So i wonder if there are any good books in which i can read to do so?
Oh yes, I will look into that TV show brought up also, sounds cool!

-Garrett

Learn to obey before you command--Solon of Athens
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Eric Allen




Location: Texas
Joined: 04 Feb 2006

Posts: 207

PostPosted: Tue 23 Jan, 2007 4:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That TV program was aired in the United States as an episode of NOVA on PBS. You can get the video from PBS, or I know New Stirling Arms (the same NSA that makes those great wasters) sells the video (as well as a couple Trebuchet kits).
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Amanda B.




Location: Colorado
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue 23 Jan, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I checked out that NOVA trebuchet program from my local library last summer. It was definitely very interesting. They used old plans and tried to figure out how they did the counterweights, and showed how the different kinds worked different ways. I believe they built them entirely using medieval techniques, of course, hand-saws and all. It was a VHS, no idea if it has been converted to DVD yet...

ETA: Here is a transcript from the NOVA website of this program: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/27mstrebuchet.html

There's a link to the mini-site for the show on it also.
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