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Tim M.





Joined: 21 Jan 2007

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Thoughts on Generation 2 swords?         Reply with quote

Hello folks. I developed an interest in swords but unfortunately between bills and school I don't have the money for those good ol' Arms and Armor swords.
I recently came across Paul Southren's site about $100-300 swords and the Generation 2 swords caught my eye. However, I would like some second opinions on the swords before I do anything. Thoughts?
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Grayson C.




Location: NCF, Sarasota, FL
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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gereation 2 is widely renown as by far the most durable swords in this price bracket. They can stand up to many, many forms of abuse and there are rarely any problems with structural integrety. The only real complaints with these swords are the looks, which are only a personal preference. The swords suffer a little in minor things like aesthetics. Also they can be a bit heavy.

The man who manufactures Gen2 swords is Clyde Hollis, an awesome guy who comes here a little. He is also frequently at SBG sword forum as well so you may want to catch him and ask him a few questions.

Honestly, the only other problem in addition to those 2 mentioned above is the lack of variety. If they had a selection of, say, MRL, then there is no question that these swords would be more popular. That being said, gen2 is an obscure company tha very few have heard of.


You are pretty safe with them, buy with confidence!

Also, there are a few reviews here by Paul Southern:
www.sword-buyers-guide.com

and by Bill Tsafa here:
http://mysite.verizon.net/tsafa1/swordreview.htm
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2007 6:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And I really wish Generation 2 would put up its own website, since many of the sites that sell its blades sell only the older, poorly-balanced versions. His newer ones are much better but you don't see them on every site.
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Grayson C.




Location: NCF, Sarasota, FL
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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2007 6:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

www.imperialcoinc.com is gen2's official site


you can also buy them from www.armsofvalor.com one of their distributors.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Imperial Co Inc? That's a pretty weird name. No wonder I've missed the site through all these years.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lafayette C Curtis wrote:
Imperial Co Inc? That's a pretty weird name. No wonder I've missed the site through all these years.


Clyde has always been easy enough to find at www.imperialweapons.com
I would deal, more or less, direct there if I was in the market for these.

I see Hal of Therion has signed up as a retailer. Silvermane is kind of just up the road from me, maybe I'll catch them at a festival this year.

Cheers

GC
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Grayson C. wrote:
Gereation 2 is widely renown as by far the most durable swords in this price bracket.


Really?

Might that do with some qualification?

I don't know one way or another...

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
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Chuck Wyatt





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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I recently purchased The Lucerne Sword from imperial weapons after reading the reviews on Paul Southern
and Bill Tsafa sites. I am very pleased with it! Down sides are aesthetics, it's very basic in design. It is on the heavy side, but not to the point where it's unusable. I haven't done much test cutting, more dry handling but it feels solid, very solid and nothing wiggles or rattles. Blade is also very stiff; you just want to thrust with it as soon as you hold it. It also comes razor sharp and covered in grease to keep it from rusting. Sword is also pretty well balanced; the Imperial Weapons site is accurate with its COB. Overall I am very pleased with it. Much happier than with any sword I have tried from MRL. Not as pretty but much more durable. Also Imperial Weapons was excellent to order from, I placed the order over the phone on Friday and received on Tuesday
Cheers
Chuck
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Mike Harris




Location: Texas, USA
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 12:50 pm    Post subject: re:Thoughts on Generation 2 swords?         Reply with quote

I have owned both the Lucerne and the newer version of the Black Prince from Generation 2. I would concur on the above impressions. They both handled pretty well and seemed lighter than their actual weight. However, the fittings are very plain.

I also own a version of the 12th Century Norman sword from Generation 2. It was a bit overly blade heavy but cut pretty well, though it was a bit difficult to get up to speed in the cut. I have since shortened the 34" blade to 29". It now handles very similarly to my Angus Trim Moonbrand, except for an extra 2" of grip. I think the newer versions of this sword (and the others with the same blade) are supposed to have a bit of distal taper, something that is lacking in the version I have. If so, this should help their handling substantially.

It is my understanding that Clyde Hollis at Imperial Weapons is engaged in an on-going effort to upgrade his designs, based on user feedback, to make them handle more like historic originals while maintaining the reputation for durability. I don't know to what degree he is backing these changes into the existing line. But I am pretty sure he is giving it a strong focus on all new designs.
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Grayson C.




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Mike, glad to see you in on this thread as well, I was hoping you'd come share your thoughts Happy

Great job with your modifications, by the way. (Rammstein from sbg)
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Mike Harris




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 8:05 pm    Post subject: re:Thoughts on Generation 2 swords?         Reply with quote

Thanks, Grayson.

Grayson's referring to a post on the SBG website related to the "gross sword abuse" my shortened Generation 2 12th Century Norman has endured with absolutely no sign of structural damage whatsoever. I have to echo the durability of these, at least this, sword. I have tried to break or seriously damage this sword, but it has resisted all such attempts. Those attempts were specifically in response to claims about the durability of Generation 2 swords. I kind of have a rebelious streak. When I found this sword for $180 at Kult of Athena, I decided it would be the subject of my wrath. Apparently, my wrath isn't as impressive as I thought it might be.

http://sbgswordforum.proboards70.com/index.cg...1166503116
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Mike Harris




Location: Texas, USA
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Jan, 2007 5:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As further information:

I just received a Generation 2 Ranger sword/dagger set, part of the ProSword fantasy line. I made some measurements on the sword with my dial calipers. The numbers I found interesting are thickness of blade just behind fuller on the ricasso .305", and the thickness of the blade at one inch before the tip .150". I believe that works out to a bit more than 50% distal taper. In profile it goes from 1.950" at the guard, to 1.650" at the beginning of the fuller (in 2.5 inches) then proceeds in a uniform taper to .900" at about 2 inches behind the tip, just before the radical tapering curve of the tip begins. My admittedly poor math skills lead me to see that as about a 40% profile taper? Anyone please feel free to correct my math.

I have seen another post elsewhere on myArmoury describe Generation 2 swords as "sharpened crowbars." That certainly doesn't seem to be the case with the admittedly small sample I've owned. While this line of swords still has areas for improvement in historical accuracy, I feel these mostly now have to do with the hilt designs on some of the existing models.
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Tim M.





Joined: 21 Jan 2007

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike Harris wrote:

I have seen another post elsewhere on myArmoury describe Generation 2 swords as "sharpened crowbars." That certainly doesn't seem to be the case with the admittedly small sample I've owned. While this line of swords still has areas for improvement in historical accuracy, I feel these mostly now have to do with the hilt designs on some of the existing models.


I bought the Celtic Anthropomorphic sword recently and it does feel kinda like a "sharpened crowbar". It weights nearly 3 lbs and has a 23inch blade but considering the way Celts fought and I'm a fairly strong guy it ain't so bad. I must say though that I'm impressed with their new Pro Sword line that you mentioned though. The swords in that line are ALOT lighter than the other swords they have produced I think and according to Gen2 just as tough. The Ranger is only 3lb 14oz as a hand and half sword and according to Gen2's home site, the new Norman sword that has a 29inch blade is under 2lbs. If they continue with these quality improvements, they will surely become widely acknowledged as a high quality sword maker
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Speaking of Gen2 swords, does anyone have experience with the Hank Reinhardt Collection? So far, the only one of these new models that shows up on the Gen 2 website is this Type XV:

Hank Reinhardt on the Imperial Weapons website wrote:
... The drawing from which this sword was made is the last drawing Ewart Oakeshott sent me, and this is the first chance Iíve had to have it properly reproduced.
The sword is hand forged from a high carbon steel, and the steel guard and pommel are beautifully formed following the three dimensional drawings. Sword is sold complete with wood scabbard wrapped in leather with steel accents.

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Mike Harris




Location: Texas, USA
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 6:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve,

That is the only sword in the Hank Reinhardt Collection that has been made so far. And I don't think any production swords have shipped yet. After all the mixed reviews his swords have received, I think Clyde Hollis is doing everything he can to make sure this one exactly matches the original Oakeshott drawings before releasing any production pieces.

I am also pretty sure the series is going to include three swords. I couldn't say what the other two are.

Regarding the Ranger from the ProSword Line, I have had one in my hands now for three days and plan on doing some testing this weekend for a performance review, written for Sword Buyers Guide. It is a pretty massive sword, certainly a two handed hilt, with exactly enough room for three of my fairly small hands.
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Tim M.





Joined: 21 Jan 2007

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In regards to the Type XV of the Hank Reinhardt colection, I'd make the assumption that considering that the sword is under the guidance and permission of Mr. Reinhardt, the swords will be high quality and well made.

Mike,
I'll be sure to check it out. Hopefully if I get all my bills paid and I have some spare cash I'll have the chance to buy it if you have a good review for it Big Grin
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Sean Belair
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 6:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tim M. wrote:
In regards to the Type XV of the Hank Reinhardt colection, I'd make the assumption that considering that the sword is under the guidance and permission of Mr. Reinhardt, the swords will be high quality and well made. Big Grin


this is not questioning wheather or not the sword is well made.

i will never buy that sword. it looks only vaguely like the design despite being an "exact replica". also the drawing suposedly okeshotte's have "by hank reinhardt" writen on it.
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 7:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would ask high quality and well made compared to what?

It is not my intent to slight the weapons in question. However, failing to provide any context or frame of reference for comparison makes any statement about quality very sweeping. Because everyone operates under different quality expectations, when we fail to qualify our opinions I think we potentially do adisservice to the companies we are advocating, and the people acting on our reference.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 8:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike Harris wrote:
I have seen another post elsewhere on myArmoury describe Generation 2 swords as "sharpened crowbars."


Please point me to the place on myArmoury.com where Generation 2 swords are called "sharpened crowbars".

Thank you.

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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Jan, 2007 7:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tim M. wrote:
I bought the Celtic Anthropomorphic sword recently and it does feel kinda like a "sharpened crowbar". It weights nearly 3 lbs and has a 23inch blade but considering the way Celts fought and I'm a fairly strong guy it ain't so bad.


Not to pick on you, but we don't actually know anything about how the ancient Celts fought. Happy Anything you may have heard about their fighting style is purely anectdotal at best, at worst it's made up. I've handled an original anthropomorphic sword, and the thing was amazingly light. While I did not have anything to measure the sword's weight, it felt lighter than an antique smallsword that I own. Not the say there's anything wrong with you liking your sword heavier, I just wanted to clarify the statement about the Celts.

Quote:
The Ranger is only 3lb 14oz as a hand and half sword


"Only" 3lb 14oz? That sounds very heavy to me as far as hand and a half swords go. Happy

I haven't handled enough Gen 2 swords to make an broad statement. I've handled some, though. My opinion is that they vary in handling, just like with most companies. A couple of the swords I handled felt pretty good in the hand, some felt slow and clunky. None of them look like historical swords other than in vague shape and profile. They seem to have excellent heat treatment. Ultimately, though, I'd hesitate to make a broad statement about all of their line without having examined more of them.

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