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Michael Edelson




Location: New York
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2007 7:36 pm    Post subject: Angus Trim 1508         Reply with quote

There are some pictures of this sword in the Makers forum, but I thought I'd share them with a wider audience.

This is a prelude to a review I'm going to submit to Nathan soon, with some quick and dirty photos thrown in (the submitted ones will be a lot nicer, I hope). A version of this mini-review is also posted on SFI.

The 1508 is, in my opinion, the finest longsword Angus Trim makes, and one of the best lonsgwords anyone makes. Its combination of handling, dynamic balance, ergonomics and durability make it a cut above most other swords. The 1508 as seen here weighs 2lbs 15ozs, has a 9" handle, a 36" blade, is 47.5" overall and has a point of balance 3.5" from the cross.

Its handling is phenomenal. The best way to describe it is by comparing it to Arms and Armor's wonderful fechterspiel blunts. One member of my study group asked "Why can't someone make a real sword that feels this good in the hand?" Well, someone did, and here it is.











Last edited by Michael Edelson on Thu 11 Jan, 2007 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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David Welch




Location: Knoxville TN
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm glad to see somebody is writing a good review on this one. I went to Blade show intending to get a 1403... and came back with this instead.

Not only is it probably the best handling sword I have ever held, but even with an edge as fine as the one on mine it will cut through heavy bone without any problems. I wouldn't use it against metal, but any other target is good to go. I regularly use mine to test cut on pig arms and shoulders. I'm hoping to try a whole pig carcass or two this winter to see how it does.

"A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand."
Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4BC-65AD
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Jason Elrod




Location: Winchester, VA
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2007 3:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's funny because I went to the Blade show with a 1508 and wanted to come back with the 1403. The 1508 is a great sword. I know at one point Gus was using 2 different pommels for the 1508; one lighter and one heavier. I wonder if he still has those options.


David Welch wrote:
I'm glad to see somebody is writing a good review on this one. I went to Blade show intending to get a 1403... and came back with this instead.

Not only is it probably the best handling sword I have ever held, but even with an edge as fine as the one on mine it will cut through heavy bone without any problems. I wouldn't use it against metal, but any other target is good to go. I regularly use mine to test cut on pig arms and shoulders. I'm hoping to try a whole pig carcass or two this winter to see how it does.
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Ed Toton




Location: Northern VA
Joined: 16 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2007 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: Angus Trim 1508         Reply with quote

Michael Edelson wrote:
Its handling is phenomenal. The best way to describe it is by comparing it to Arms and Armor's wonderful fechterspiel blunts. One member of my study group asked "Why can't someone make a real sword that feels this good in the hand?" Well, someone did, and here it is.


Dang it, I just had to spot this... *sigh* another sword to add to the wishlist. Happy

-Ed T. Toton III
ed.toton.org | ModernChivalry.org
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Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
Joined: 20 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2007 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Angus Trim 1508         Reply with quote

Ed Toton wrote:
Michael Edelson wrote:
Its handling is phenomenal. The best way to describe it is by comparing it to Arms and Armor's wonderful fechterspiel blunts. One member of my study group asked "Why can't someone make a real sword that feels this good in the hand?" Well, someone did, and here it is.


Dang it, I just had to spot this... *sigh* another sword to add to the wishlist. Happy


I want one too how much are they?

Jean

System D'Armes Historical European fencing in New Orleans

Essays on Hroarr

Introducing the Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic
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Ed Toton




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Angus Trim 1508         Reply with quote

Jean Henri Chandler wrote:
I want one too how much are they?


It looks like the basic model is listed about half-way down the page here: http://angustrimswords.net/longswords.html

-Ed T. Toton III
ed.toton.org | ModernChivalry.org
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Jean Henri Chandler




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Angus Trim 1508         Reply with quote

Ed Toton wrote:
Jean Henri Chandler wrote:
I want one too how much are they?


It looks like the basic model is listed about half-way down the page here: http://angustrimswords.net/longswords.html


The one on the web page looks slightly different and has different stats.

J

System D'Armes Historical European fencing in New Orleans

Essays on Hroarr

Introducing the Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic
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Tyson Nakamura





Joined: 16 Oct 2006

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2007 6:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How does it compare to an Albion of similar blade type?
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Michael Edelson




Location: New York
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tyson Nakamura wrote:
How does it compare to an Albion of similar blade type?


I have four Albions and three Atrims, and so I have learned not to open that can of worms. Happy

I can't discuss fit and finish...although the 1508s is lovely, it cannot compare to an Albion in that department, and this is why Albions cost a lot more.

I also cannot compare this sword in terms of performance (balance, handling, etc.), because as I have already stated, this sword is best I have ever used in that regard. Therefore, comparing it to any other sword in this category would yield the same results...this sword wins.

The real answer to that question is that both Albion and Angus Trim make some of the best swords available today (along with Arms and Armor). You can't go wrong with either, so ultimately, the only real answer is which do you like better?
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Tyson Nakamura





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PostPosted: Fri 12 Jan, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I heard, although I'm not sure how true it is, that Albion swords were more durable in heavier cutting.
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Michael Edelson




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Jan, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am probably going to get killed for this... Happy

From my own experiences with Albion and Angus Trim swords, I would have to say that the edges of Angus Trim swords are a little more resilient. Albion edges are, however, easier to repair, as they tend to be a bit softer (50 vs. 52). Both an Albion and an Atrim edge can survive being whacked lightly into an iron post without any sort of damage. Again, this is data from my swords, and my swords only. I cannot speak of anything else. This is not a major difference, and really doesn't make itself very apparent when cutting.

I have heard that Albion uses 1070 or similar steel, which is a good, tough steel and is closer to medieval steel, while Angus Trim uses a modern alloy, 5160, which is supposed to be a little tougher.

I have never pushed either my Atrims or Albions to the breaking point, so I cannot definitively speak of durability, except to say that from reliable second hand sources I have heard that Atrims are very, very tough and have survived some ridiculous abuse tests. The destruction tests on Albions website are also quite impressive, but I have no third party evidence of how well they do in user's hands. This is probably because people tend not to use Albions heavily.

The Albion longswords I have are significantly thicker than my Angus Trim longswords. For example, both the Earl and the 1508 start out the same thickness (1/3 of an inch), but the Earl is almost twice as thick near the point. The Earl pays the price for this thickness...it is no where near the 1508 in handling. However, logically speaking, the Earl should be less likely to set on a bad cut, provided the heat treatment is good, and having tested the sword, I see no evidence to the contrary. However, I do not own any Angus Trim "war swords", and the Earl is, I believe, a war sword, so perhaps the comparison is not fair. I have seen heavy Angus Trim swords that conveyed the impression of invulnerability.

So the answer is, it really depends on the individual sword. Gus himself may be able to better answer this question, as I can only speak from my own limited experience.
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Jan, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Edelson wrote:
I am probably going to get killed for this... Happy

From my own experiences with Albion and Angus Trim swords, I would have to say that the edges of Angus Trim swords are a little more resilient. Albion edges are, however, easier to repair, as they tend to be a bit softer (50 vs. 52). Both an Albion and an Atrim edge can survive being whacked lightly into an iron post without any sort of damage. Again, this is data from my swords, and my swords only. I cannot speak of anything else. This is not a major difference, and really doesn't make itself very apparent when cutting.

I have heard that Albion uses 1070 or similar steel, which is a good, tough steel and is closer to medieval steel, while Angus Trim uses a modern alloy, 5160, which is supposed to be a little tougher.

I have never pushed either my Atrims or Albions to the breaking point, so I cannot definitively speak of durability, except to say that from reliable second hand sources I have heard that Atrims are very, very tough and have survived some ridiculous abuse tests. The destruction tests on Albions website are also quite impressive, but I have no third party evidence of how well they do in user's hands. This is probably because people tend not to use Albions heavily.

The Albion longswords I have are significantly thicker than my Angus Trim longswords. For example, both the Earl and the 1508 start out the same thickness (1/3 of an inch), but the Earl is almost twice as thick near the point. The Earl pays the price for this thickness...it is no where near the 1508 in handling. However, logically speaking, the Earl should be less likely to set on a bad cut, provided the heat treatment is good, and having tested the sword, I see no evidence to the contrary. However, I do not own any Angus Trim "war swords", and the Earl is, I believe, a war sword, so perhaps the comparison is not fair. I have seen heavy Angus Trim swords that conveyed the impression of invulnerability.

So the answer is, it really depends on the individual sword. Gus himself may be able to better answer this question, as I can only speak from my own limited experience.


Hi Michael

I don't think I'll really get into the comparison of an Albion and AT sword, particularly when they're so different to start with, not even close to apples and apples......

I do want to mention the steel stuff. Neither 1075 or 5160 is much like medieval steel. Nor does one have much advantage over the other as raw steels, rather the difference in heat treating would make the difference......

Both steels chemistry is pretty similar. 1075 has a bit more manganese, and a bit more carbon, and 5160 has a trace of chrome.........Neither is what I would call a high tech steel......

As far as handling differences between the two, a big part of that is that they are such different types of swords. Yep, both may fall into the XVIIIIb category, but one is a "longsword", and the other more "warsword". The AT does just what it was designed to do, which is excel in handling, and cutting. The 1508 is very similar in blade geometry to the 1516 which David Welch and his brother tested on pork shoulders last summer.

The sword was designed around the handling parameters as I interpret them for the Lichtenour descended traditions, and Fiore.

swords are fun
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Michael Edelson




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Jan, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yup, that was a better answer. Happy

Thanks, Gus.
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Michael Ahrens




Location: Staten Island & Andes NY
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PostPosted: Fri 12 Jan, 2007 5:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael

well i have four atrims and three albions, so there(LOL).


Mike



Michael Edelson wrote:
Tyson Nakamura wrote:
How does it compare to an Albion of similar blade type?


I have four Albions and three Atrims, and so I have learned not to open that can of worms. Happy

I can't discuss fit and finish...although the 1508s is lovely, it cannot compare to an Albion in that department, and this is why Albions cost a lot more.

I also cannot compare this sword in terms of performance (balance, handling, etc.), because as I have already stated, this sword is best I have ever used in that regard. Therefore, comparing it to any other sword in this category would yield the same results...this sword wins.

The real answer to that question is that both Albion and Angus Trim make some of the best swords available today (along with Arms and Armor). You can't go wrong with either, so ultimately, the only real answer is which do you like better?

Mike Ahrens
http://www.selohaar.org/

Staten Island German Martial Arts (S.I.G.M.A.)
http://www.sigmanewyork.webs.com/

Member of the 1st Universal Church of St. John Cantius Garand, Reformed (Gas Port)
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Michael Edelson




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PostPosted: Fri 12 Jan, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I sense an imbalance in the force...

You must buy another Albion, and I must buy another Atrim.
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