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Shawn Henthorn




Location: Amarillo TX
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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2007 8:28 pm    Post subject: A dagger question         Reply with quote

My friend and I were sitting around talking about daggers and he said something about a dagger with a triangular cross section blade. Did these have a certian name or type or did they come out on rondel daggers and the like? To be more specific I am talking about a straight sided triangle and not concave sides.
thanks,
Shawn
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Richard Fay




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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan, 2007 10:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shawn,

Some stilettos had a triangular cross-section. The fusetto, a multipurpose stiletto used by 17th-18th century artillerymen to measure the bore and shot, clean the vent, and pierce the powder bag could have a blade with the cross-section of an isosceles triangle.

Stilettos in general had a triangular- or square-sectioned blade designed exclusively for thrusting. They became popular in southern Europe during the 16th and 17th centuries after edicts were passed forbidding weapons to be carried. They were easy to conceal and could penetrate deep into the human body. Many stilettos with turned steel hilts were made in Brescia.

So, yes, some daggers could have a triangular cross-section.

Stay safe!

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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, these are reproductions but both have a triangular cross section. As noted above the first is a stilleto and of course the second in is a rondel. Triangular cross section yes, specific type I don't think so????




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Richard Fay




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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan, 2007 11:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
Well, these are reproductions but both have a triangular cross section. As noted above the first is a stilleto and of course the second in is a rondel. Triangular cross section yes, specific type I don't think so????


Russ,

The member that asked the question asked about dagger blades with triangular questions; I responded with what I felt was a rather well-known example. I certainly didn't think I was implying that only stilettos had a triangular cross section, but they do take it to somewhat of an extreme, being only really suitable for thrusting. I apologize if my post sounded exclusive of other types; I was presenting one type that fit the criteria asked by the initial poster. I actually did mention that even stilettos blades could sometimes be of a square cross-section.

Again, I'm sorry if it seemed as if I was excluding other types, or indicative of only one type. I was just trying to be helpful with a little information, but maybe it was too little information to be truly helpful!

Stay safe!

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan, 2007 12:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Richard Fay wrote:

Russ,

The member that asked the question asked about dagger blades with triangular questions; I responded with what I felt was a rather well-known example. I certainly didn't think I was implying that only stilettos had a triangular cross section, but they do take it to somewhat of an extreme, being only really suitable for thrusting. I apologize if my post sounded exclusive of other types; I was presenting one type that fit the criteria asked by the initial poster. I actually did mention that even stilettos blades could sometimes be of a square cross-section.

Again, I'm sorry if it seemed as if I was excluding other types, or indicative of only one type. I was just trying to be helpful with a little information, but maybe it was too little information to be truly helpful!

Stay safe!


No worries, I did not take your post that way at all and think your points about stilettos were well made. I was merely trying to emphasize that there is on particular dagger type that can claim a monopoly on the triangular cross section. Sorry if it sounded like I was jumping on you that most certainly was not the intent! Happy

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Richard Fay




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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan, 2007 12:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello all!
Russ Ellis wrote:

Sorry if it sounded like I was jumping on you that most certainly was not the intent!

Russ,
No problem! Happy
It just shows the "dangers" inherent in this form of communication. Wink
(And how I can misinterpret what's said! Sorry about that!)

Wouldn't many single-edged daggers be roughly triangular in cross section? Wouldn't this include many daggers that have a thickened spine as the back edge that tapers fairly straight to the cutting edge? Now, a cutting dagger would probably be a fairly shallow triangle, while a stabbing dagger like a stiletto can be a "thicker" triangle.

Just pondering the original poster's question.

Stay safe!

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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Richard Fay wrote:
Hello all!

Wouldn't many single-edged daggers be roughly triangular in cross section? Wouldn't this include many daggers that have a thickened spine as the back edge that tapers fairly straight to the cutting edge? Now, a cutting dagger would probably be a fairly shallow triangle, while a stabbing dagger like a stiletto can be a "thicker" triangle.

Just pondering the original poster's question.

Stay safe!


Sounds pretty much dead on to me. Rondels are a particularly good illustrate of that point because many of them with a triangular cross section have a fairly thick spine (A&As rondel).

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Richard Fay wrote:
Hello all!
Wouldn't many single-edged daggers be roughly triangular in cross section? Wouldn't this include many daggers that have a thickened spine as the back edge that tapers fairly straight to the cutting edge? Now, a cutting dagger would probably be a fairly shallow triangle, while a stabbing dagger like a stiletto can be a "thicker" triangle.

Just pondering the original poster's question.

Stay safe!


The short answer would be yes with qualifications: The blade could be flat grind or could be convex or hollow ground and be generally a triangle.

If the main bevel goes only partway from the edge to the top like a " sabre " grind ( Visualize most Japanese swords ) you would have a ridge line midway down the blade and a 5 sided blade or even a 6 sided blade if the top had a ridge on it forming an obtuse angle.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Shawn Henthorn




Location: Amarillo TX
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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks guys, the stilletos and certain rondel daggers is what I said, but he insisted that there was a spicific type of dagger so I thought I would ask.
Thanks again!
Shawn
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Grayson C.




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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Richard Fay wrote:
Shawn,

Some stilettos had a triangular cross-section. The fusetto, a multipurpose stiletto used by 17th-18th century artillerymen to measure the bore and shot, clean the vent, and pierce the powder bag could have a blade with the cross-section of an isosceles triangle.

Stilettos in general had a triangular- or square-sectioned blade designed exclusively for thrusting. They became popular in southern Europe during the 16th and 17th centuries after edicts were passed forbidding weapons to be carried. They were easy to conceal and could penetrate deep into the human body. Many stilettos with turned steel hilts were made in Brescia.

So, yes, some daggers could have a triangular cross-section.

Stay safe!



There is a beautiful example of an artilleryman's stiletto (fusetto) in Dk's weapons, if someone can post this picture. I don't have a scanner on this computer.


I think that the specific name would be the stiletto. I can't think of any other dagger like that....
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