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Merv Cannon




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Dec, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: Couple of Questions about Helmet Fittings         Reply with quote

These questions may seem a bit trite, but I believe it is the small details that make all the difference between having good gear and having great gear, wheather it be for reenactment or as collectable reproduction items. I was watching a History doco (documentry) recently andI noticed that some (Norman) reenactors had what appeared to be the leather lining or headband of their spangenhelm hanging down about 3 or 4 inches extra at the back......it was just behind the ears and went straight around in a short semi-circle. I thought that if it was done historically, if may have offered very small rear head protection. But then I thought of the modern Army helmets to which you can add an extra rear head strap which comes down in a similar fashion and helps keep the helmet on when the head is tilted forward.
My obvious first question is....does anyone know of any art showing this historically for European or Slavic helmets.....any time period, say between c500 and 1700 ?

The second point is that I noticed a statue showing the use of lined chain-maille as a chin strap on a helm ( a later statue of W. Wallace) and I got to thinking that it would probablly have made sense for someone to do it. I know that they did use scale and prob chain maille for chin straps in later helms ( like they do now for some Dress helm of British Line Regiments).........but again...........anyone have any historic references for earlier periods for either maille or scale plates in chin straps........(same time period as above)
Sorry that this is not a more exciting subject. I promise that my next topic will be much more interresting ! Wink

Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/

"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
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Nick Trueman





Joined: 27 Mar 2006

Posts: 246

PostPosted: Thu 14 Dec, 2006 7:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Merv

Heres a example of either a outer helmet covering, or male type headwear (Alanic, 8thc). Ive noticed early slav, magyar, khazar helmets do not have enough holes along the rim to accommodate a leather liner? Even there method of attaching the aventail uses only a few holes ( a iron rod passed through eyelets, the rod housing the aventail).
I can only guess a felt cap would have been used as a liner for these helmets

Cheers

Nick



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Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Merv, I think this is exactly what you were looking for.

The baptismal font is to be found in the 'Eglise Saint Bartélemy' (Saint Bartholomew) of Liège, it's a work of Renier, goldsmith of the city of Huy during the first half of the 12th century.

I have visited Belgium and Liege this spring, and I have seen the font pictured below. It is really a work of art. The church was under renovation but we were nevertheless let inside to see the interior, but the lighting conditions were very poor, so the images are not the best.










It is a simple pointed helmet with reinforced rim, without the nasal and with leather strap that goes from the forehead area towards the back of the soldier's head - I have never seen such strap position, but it seems that it could be working. Soldier also carries a very large kite shield on his back. He is the only military figure on the baptismal font.


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Ed Toton




Location: Northern VA
Joined: 16 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2006 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I know it's off topic, but what I'm finding interesting is the figures in relief are depicted with their sword scabbards mostly internal to the hauberk.. interesting. Happy

At first I thought they had baldrics, but it looks like they're wearing their shields too.

-Ed T. Toton III
ed.toton.org | ModernChivalry.org
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