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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
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PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan, 2004 5:29 pm    Post subject: Albion's Crecy Grete Swerde         Reply with quote

Perhaps my friends from Albion Armorers will chime in here but I'd like to hear from anyone who's noticed this. Please remember that this is not criticizing but simply an observation. I own the Crecy and it has served me well for almost two years now, it's one of my favorites to be honest.

Albion has this sword classified as a type IIIa but according to Oakeshott's typology it seems to be more of a XIIa. IIIa's appear to have blades with very little profile taper and the Crecy has plenty. Is there some reason why this classification was chosen or am I missing something?

Gary

Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
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Jason Dingledine
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Location: Tacoma, Wa. USA
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PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan, 2004 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Albion's Crecy Grete Swerde         Reply with quote

Gary Grzybek wrote:
Perhaps my friends from Albion Armorers will chime in here but I'd like to hear from anyone who's noticed this. Please remember that this is not criticizing but simply an observation. I own the Crecy and it has served me well for almost two years now, it's one of my favorites to be honest.

Albion has this sword classified as a type IIIa but according to Oakeshott's typology it seems to be more of a XIIa. IIIa's appear to have blades with very little profile taper and the Crecy has plenty. Is there some reason why this classification was chosen or am I missing something?

Gary


Hey Gary,

When Randal designed the blade for the Crecy, we had a hard time pigeon-holing it into Oakeshott's typology, because it is such a "tweener" for three different categories. It has the stronger taper of the Type XIIa (12a), but not enough taper to be a Type XVIa (16a). The fuller is the right length for the Type XIIIa (13a), but is a little short for the XIIa, and some XVIa's but it could be forced in there.

We just eventually based the designation off of the strong fuller character, and the sword type that the hilt was a strong inspiration for. Like I said, it is such a tweener that you could call it whatever you wished.

Hope this didn't make the matter more confusing.

Jason Dingledine
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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 559

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan, 2004 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Albion's Crecy Grete Swerde         Reply with quote

Jason Dingledine wrote:
Gary Grzybek wrote:
Perhaps my friends from Albion Armorers will chime in here but I'd like to hear from anyone who's noticed this. Please remember that this is not criticizing but simply an observation. I own the Crecy and it has served me well for almost two years now, it's one of my favorites to be honest.

Albion has this sword classified as a type IIIa but according to Oakeshott's typology it seems to be more of a XIIa. IIIa's appear to have blades with very little profile taper and the Crecy has plenty. Is there some reason why this classification was chosen or am I missing something?

Gary


Hey Gary,

When Randal designed the blade for the Crecy, we had a hard time pigeon-holing it into Oakeshott's typology, because it is such a "tweener" for three different categories. It has the stronger taper of the Type XIIa (12a), but not enough taper to be a Type XVIa (16a). The fuller is the right length for the Type XIIIa (13a), but is a little short for the XIIa, and some XVIa's but it could be forced in there.

We just eventually based the designation off of the strong fuller character, and the sword type that the hilt was a strong inspiration for. Like I said, it is such a tweener that you could call it whatever you wished.

Hope this didn't make the matter more confusing.




Hi Jason,

I got it now, so the descision was not based on the blade profile alone. Hey, that's good enough for me. It's not that importaint that it fits into a perfect niche anyway since the blade design is quite effective.

Thanks,

Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
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Randal Graham
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Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Joined: 20 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan, 2004 7:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason is being really generous too me there truthfully...

to be honest, I never used and have never been particularly familiar with Oakeshotts classification system, i designed from the standpoints of time and place and culture, as I always have.

Too me it was a really straight-forward warsword, a work-horse, simple and solid. The typology thing came later and had lots of people at the shop scratching thier heads sayin stuff like " uh, i dunno, it could be..."

Happy

R.H.Graham
Swordsmith
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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 559

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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2004 4:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randal Graham wrote:
Jason is being really generous too me there truthfully...

to be honest, I never used and have never been particularly familiar with Oakeshotts classification system, i designed from the standpoints of time and place and culture, as I always have.

Too me it was a really straight-forward warsword, a work-horse, simple and solid. The typology thing came later and had lots of people at the shop scratching thier heads sayin stuff like " uh, i dunno, it could be..."

Happy



Hi Randal,

Well, I'm sure it was very much the same way for the smiths back then. They designed blades based on function, intended use and quite possably the particular taste of the warriors who used them . Plus it's safe to say that feedback from the field must of had a lot to do with the success of many standard types, some of which we can now neatly classify and some we cannot.

Thanks!

Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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Angus Trim




Location: Seattle area
Joined: 26 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2004 9:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gary Grzybek wrote:


Happy


some of which we can now neatly classify and some we cannot.

Thanks![/quote]

Actually Gary

Anything can be classified, all you need is a large enough pigeon hole.

And for all of that "Unclassified" is a classification too......

Heck, we all have fun classifying things, but lets be honest. More fun than that is actually using the swords, and the only thing more fun than that is girls and swords........

Auld Dawg

swords are fun
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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 559

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Thu 22 Jan, 2004 5:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Angus Trim wrote:
Actually Gary

Anything can be classified, all you need is a large enough pigeon hole.

And for all of that "Unclassified" is a classification too......

Heck, we all have fun classifying things, but lets be honest. More fun than that is actually using the swords, and the only thing more fun than that is girls and swords........



You do have a point Gus......especially about the Women Big Grin

Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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