Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Brittany Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Victor Crowne





Joined: 22 Nov 2006

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu 23 Nov, 2006 6:19 pm    Post subject: Brittany         Reply with quote

I cannot seem to find ANY reliable info about the British/Romano-British conquest of the portion of Armorica which became Brittany. It seems Nora Chadwick wrote a book about the subject that is now long out of print, and most of what I find online is based on the standard legendary and semi-legendary accounts related by the likes of Gerald of Wales etc, and cobbled together from asides in the various lifes of the saints.

Anybody know of any good resources online or otherwise to investigate this subject? Early Brittany fascinates me. Just the names (Judicael, Nominoe, Erispoe etc) seem so... poetic? Maybe that's not the word. Anyway, thanks.
View user's profile
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Thu 23 Nov, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Please note that the description for the "historic arms talk" forum is "Discussions of reproduction and authentic historical arms and armour from various cultures and time periods". You're not talking about arms or armour, but rather, general history. Hence I've moved this topic to the Off-topic Talk forum.

This is a fascinating subject...

Thank you.

.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Victor Crowne





Joined: 22 Nov 2006

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu 23 Nov, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeeze - sorry again. That's two faux pas in two days. Not exactly making a stellar debut here.

Either way - I agree about it being a fascinating subject. It seems to me to be the least researched chapter in the history of the Celtic peoples.
View user's profile
Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Likes: 7 pages
Reading list: 28 books

Posts: 1,809

PostPosted: Fri 24 Nov, 2006 2:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

FWIW, David Nicolle briefly mentions this topic on page 10 of his Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars (Osprey Men-at Arms 154):

David Nicolle wrote:
The well-documented British migration across the Channel stemmed largely from western Britain, and included some 12,000 of the Romano-British aristocracy. These formed a useful fighting force who laid the foundations of a future ‘Brittany’ in Armorica.

Mr. Nicolle's writing suggests that this migration occurred mid-5th century, following an outbreak of plague and a rebellion by Anglo-Saxon mercenaries, both c. AD 446. Mr. Nicolle lists numerous references at the end of the book. However, it is not clear to me which references might address the British migration to Armorica.

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
View user's profile Send private message
Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 5,678

PostPosted: Fri 24 Nov, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd like to read more about this too so I'm hoping someone can come up with more information. Many of the tales incorporated into the Arthurian myths come from the Bretons. They were also a significant force in Duke William of Normandys invasion force in 1066. Many of them saw an invasion of England as a chance at payback.
View user's profile Send private message
Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 446

PostPosted: Fri 24 Nov, 2006 8:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Victor,
the best overall view that I have read on the subject is the collaboration between welshman Michael Jones and breton Patrick Galliou published in 1991 by Blackwell of Oxford, available at Cambridge in the USA, under the title '' THE BRETONS'' , in the '' Peoples of Europe '' collection.
The sixth chapter deals with different legends, such as that expanded upon by Nicolle, and refers to all primary and secondary sources available, from Gildas to Procopius, the Mabinogion, Jordanes, and the interpretations made by historians such as Chadwick and Lot. The portrait which emerges is more complex than a simple migration and conquest, and is more in line with an evolution emerging from continuous contacts between Armorica ( what we call Brittany) and what we now call Wales and the southwest of England, including Cornwall. It would seem that there was a migration period in the 5th to 6th century which overlapped with the return of british (welsh) warriors from failed military ventures on the continent, and this convergence gave rise to the idea that Brittany was somehow seized by force. It would appear that the archeological evidence available does not validate this theory but rather shows a period of settlement without conflict, except for some obscure rebellions against remnants of roman authority and finally the more documented conflicts with the frankish invaders after the wars against the visigoths.
Have fun, this is a great area where legend, primary sources and historical interpretation collide regularly, with the occasional writer readily making affirmations of humoungous proportions with very little solid evidence.
Cheers, and if you do find a smoking gun with regard to the invasion theory, please advise.
Jean-Carle

Bon coeur et bon bras
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Le-Palud




Location: France
Joined: 11 May 2005
Reading list: 17 books

Posts: 152

PostPosted: Sat 25 Nov, 2006 7:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Victor,
I think that interesting bibliography can be found on the internet or in local libraries (I live in Brittany) but my very first question is: can you read french ?

Jean

I could find this one, in english: http://www.tempus-publishing.com/bookdetails.php?isbn=0752425242
View user's profile Send private message
Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Likes: 7 pages
Reading list: 28 books

Posts: 1,809

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Le-Palud wrote:
... I could find this one, in english: http://www.tempus-publishing.com/bookdetails.php?isbn=0752425242

The linked book, The British Settlement of Brittany, by Guigon, Merdrignac and Giot, looks interesting. However, there is only one review on Amazon.com, and it is just 2 stars (related to French-English translation issues, as well as content). Here is the link to the Amazon.com listing. Jean, have you read this book? And, if so, what do you think of it? Or has anyone else looked at it?

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
View user's profile Send private message
Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 446

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 3:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve,
I haven't read the book but I think it helpfull to know that Giot, who passed away, was known as the ''father'' of Breton archeology, many of his works are listed in the Jones-Galliou bibliography, as are works by his associates Guigon and Merdrignac, both experts in Breton history, so it certainly can't be a bad reference. However I would not be surprised if the crticism levelled at the writing style was bang on. Archeologists make for horrible litterature as their texts are continuously referring to studies and tests made, which fails to be conducive to a flowing narrative dealing with military conquests.
Jones and Galiou are pretty much the same, Jones being the Professor of Medieval French History at the U. of Nottingham, and Galliou at the Université de Haute Bretagne at Rennes, with his chair at Brest, or was at the time of the book.
Cheers,
Jean-Carle

Bon coeur et bon bras
View user's profile Send private message
Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,532

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov, 2006 4:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is probably getting off topic, but I am interested in the reference to "Amorica."

There is a Templar tale about Amoricia. A Venetican, Enrico Nicholi, sailed to this place (following Viking saga references) and left Scottish Templars at the location (three times around 1290's to 1300.) He also reported the natives as knowing of fair skinned red haired people who had settled there earlier. The voyage is pretty well documented by his journal, re-enacted by a modern day sailor (Laura Zolo..1997), and could be considered validated by a historic medieval sword that was left with a Canadian Indian tribe (Mi'qmaq.) It is fairly controversial stuff, but those interested can read that side of the story in "Templars In America", by Tim Wallace Murphey and Marilyn Hopkins. The Templar's prevalent use of Corn/Maze in decorations of their temple locations is a curiosity to say the least since it was not known on their continent at the time they constructed their chapels.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Le-Palud




Location: France
Joined: 11 May 2005
Reading list: 17 books

Posts: 152

PostPosted: Mon 27 Nov, 2006 1:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve,
No I didn't read the book, I only made a research on the french speaking internet to help if I could. At first I found this book on the University of Rennes (Brittany) library's site. Along with a few others but only in french.

Jared,
It is ARMORICA not AMORICA. This is the old name of Brittany.
Armor means "the sea country" in breton language, opposed to Arcoat or Argoat meaning the woods country.
Brittany is still called "Peninsule armoricaine" or Armorican peninsula.

Best,
Jean
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Brittany
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum