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Jim Bond




Location: NY
Joined: 13 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Mon 13 Nov, 2006 10:08 pm    Post subject: Please recommendations unique weapons (First post...)         Reply with quote

Hi everybody. This is my first post here...

I am currently developing a graphic novel. I have been researching hand to hand arms lately. The weapons (no guns) in my novel will be a hybrid of all the interesting and unique weapons I find through my research. So far my favorites have probably been from India (lots of UNIQUE weapons I have never even seen before) , the sword of Guo Jian (China), the executioner swords with the etchings of the different execution techniques and some ornate European short swords (not sure if thats the correct type, dont have my book in front of me), I have been checking out a lot of those fancy basket hilts. Ornate blades with etchings on them are also a plus, etc etc etc etc...

I want to pick and choose different features from different weapons and combine them to create completely new styles.

I was wondering if you guys could recommend any unique weapons in particular that you like. I would like to hear some legends about swords too.

I'm pretty much a Newbie when it comes to this stuff, but I'm ready to be overwhelmed with information! haha

Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong area. Much thanks. Cool

Jim




PS Can anyone find me a battle ready sword like this one? or maybe a little larger?



Wink

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 13 Nov, 2006 10:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have moved this topic to the Off-topic Talk forum.

Please note the description for this forum:
"Discussions of general history and other miscellaneous topics relating to arms and armour that do not specifically fit our other forums"

The Historical Arms Talk forum is described as:
"Discussions of reproduction and authentic historical arms and armour from various cultures and time periods"

Thank you.

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Jim Bond




Location: NY
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PostPosted: Mon 13 Nov, 2006 10:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

K, sorry about that. I assumed this would be all encompassing.
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George Hill




Location: Atlanta Ga
Joined: 16 May 2005

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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 2:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Finding wacko European weapons is something of a hobby for me.


Well, the poleaxe is under represented in fiction. Also, Fiore referenced two very unusual poleaxes. The basic pole axe is axe one on side, hammer on the other side, and spike at the top... and also the bottom.

One of Fiore's poleaxes has a blinding powder sprinkler, so if the other fellow blocks, the powder shoots out and gets him in the eyes. The other is like the Japanese chain and sickle, but with a poleaxe as the base weapon. It has a rope tied to the end, with a weight attached, and is used to entangle the legs.

Alas, Fiore did not go into great detail.

One of the German masters referenced the "Staff Flail" which is like a pair in nunchucks, except one side is big with lots of iron spikes, and the other side is a staff. (They are not the same length, like with nunchucks.) And he also references a small sickle. I think it was Paulus Hector Mair, but I'm not sure.

There is some edvience of a whip with a large weight at one end, and whips were said to be dual wielded with a large knife.

Also, for throwing weapons, you can't go wrong with hurlbats. The Hurlbat is the European ninja star, except it's axe shaped. Spike all over though, so any part that hits does damage. Also, you have the "Darts with BIG darts" used against the enemies of Roman. each roman would carry a five plumbata behind his shield in the later ages. This basically looks like a dart which is a foot long, and has a barbed arrow head, on top of a lead weight about as big as an orange. (I think.)

As to your PS... there are no battle swords like that. Sorry. Wink

To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania
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Lancelot Chan
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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 2:48 am    Post subject: Re: Please recommendations unique weapons (First post...)         Reply with quote

I can't find you any battle-ready modern piece but for an antique, the closest one I could find is shown below:



Zweihandschwert
Two-handed sword
Italy
1500
Length: 1245 mm
Blade width: 168 mm

Ancient Combat Association —http://www.acahk.org
Realistic Sparring Weapons — http://www.rsw.com.hk
Nightstalkers — http://www.nightstalkers.com.hk
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Sam Barris




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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 2:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How about a falx? It was Dacian and looks something like a big sickle stuck to a short staff. You can google it for pictures.
Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Adam Bodorics
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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 3:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oriental-arms has LOTS of very interesting weapons on their site, I recommend checking out african stuff - some of them looks very fantasy-ish to me...

I'm a big fan of Berserk, I think it's done very well, almost everything would work in real (I mean, the arms&armours, not the techniques or magic or etc Laughing Out Loud ), the biggest exceptions being Guts' swords... especially the Dragon Slayer. You might find longer (and imho much nicer) swords in Europe, but even when calculating with distal taper and a very wide and shallow fuller, this sword would weigh at least 30 kg... Way too thick and wide... For those who didn't read nor see it: they DO mention that it IS too thick to be able to make a clean cut... Big Grin
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Richard Fay




Location: Upstate New York
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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 8:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello all!

Two words: hunga-munga (an African throwing knife, sort of like a wild hurlbat with attitude!).
Somebody already mentioned African weapons, and the hunga-munga immediately leapt to mind!

There are also many styles of European pole arms that are underrepresented in literature. How about a nice mancatcher? Or how about an awl pike, simple but deadly? Or maybe a military fork, including hooks to pull your opponents off their mounts, or even walls?

There are some interesting Asian weapons. What about the ancus of Southern and Central India and Java, sort of like a curved pick with a spike at top? Some could sport elaborate decoration. Or how about the Indian combination weapon, the bich'hwa-bagh nakh, a nasty looking thing with a curved dagger blade and "tiger claws" on the grip? Or maybe a scissors katar, an Indian "punch dagger" with two smaller side blades that fold out? There is also the folding katar, with a smaller blade sheathed inside a larger one, and the smaller blade slides out when needed.

A neat book that shows a lot of peculiar weapons, especially Asian, is George Cameron Stone's A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration, and Use of Arms and Armor in all Countries and in all Times. It's a bit dated, and the photos aren't always the best, but it has a plethora of different weapon types.

I hope this gave you some idea of what sorts of "odd and strange" weapons are out there!

Stay safe!

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
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Jim Bond




Location: NY
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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 12:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

@ Everybody: Thanks for the replies! A lot of things out there that I never heard of, which is a good thing. I'm at work (on a dial up modem) right now, not exactly research friendly. I am taking notes so I can do some research later on when I get home...

I was wrong when I said "short swords" earlier. I meant European Small Swords. I saw some really fancy looking ones with blued blades and gold designs that were pretty nice...

For the record, I have only bought 1 weapons book so far (Weapon: A Visual History Of Arms And Armor, DK Publishing). So I would deifnitely take some more book recommendations. Preferably ones with lots of nice pictures. I will also be making a trip to the Metropolitan Museum of Art NYC soon to do some research...

@ Adam: Berserk is definitely a huge influence on my novel. Technically I've been working on it since 2000. I came across the Berserk DVD a few years ago and just got up to date with the English manga version a couple weeks ago. If you are familiar with the manga, I was pretty suprised to find out that the weapons Silat had were real lol. I can tell Kentaro Miura did his Indian weapon research. Thanks for the web site too.

@ George: Who is this Fiore that you mentioned?

@ Richard: I am familiar with and am definitely considering using a Katar like weapon. Haven't heard of those other ones you mentioned though, I'll look into it.

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Richard Fay




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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 1:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello again!

Jim,
Where are my manners? Eek!
I forgot to welcome you to these wonderful forums!
Welcome aboard! Happy

If you're interested in weapons of the world, especially the "strange and bizarre", I would highly recommend Stone's glossary. It contains a lot, and the pictures aren't quite as bad as I may have implied; they just look "old" (black and white and a bit grainy).

Another book you may find useful is Weapons An International Encyclopedia from 5000 BC to 2000 AD by the Diagram Group. It has nice line drawings of many types of weapons, including some different examples. The DK Weapon book that you got is fine, too!

Check our our reading lists or the bibliography on the web site to get an idea of what's available. (I have over 200 books on my list; I've been trying to enter comments for most, but it's a daunting task!) You can purchase books right through the bookstore here on the web site.

I might give you some more examples out of Stone's glossary later, but I really must attend to other things!

Again, welcome to the forum! Happy

Stay safe!

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
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Greyson Brown




Location: Windsor, Colorado
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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 1:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you are looking for a book with pictures of wierd weapons, then Stone's A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration, and Use of Arms and Armour in All Times and All Places (or some title really darn close to that; it is usually just called Stone's Glossary) would be a very good starting place. It can be a bit pricey, though, and there are not pictures for everything in the book. I have actually found things like the DK books to be pretty good for introductory info, especially since they are picture rich, and allow you to see things you might not understand the description of.

Another good book, that I am fairly certain is out of print but seems to be in most libraries, is from The Diagram Group entitled Weapons (it might be Weapon with no 's'). It has very few pictures, but is full of line drawings, and includes a good variety of weapons from the stone age up throught WWII.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Richard Fay




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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 1:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Greyson,

I beat you to it by two minutes! (I just posted the same recommendations.)Big Grin
What is it they say, great minds think alike? Big Grin

Stay safe!

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
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J. Bedell




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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 1:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like black sea yatagans. They are very nice weapons if you ask me. Here's a pic.
-James



 Attachment: 20.21 KB
ph-0[1].jpg


The pen may be mighter, but the sword is much more fun.
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Grayson C.




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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 1:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Another good book, that I am fairly certain is out of print but seems to be in most libraries, is from The Diagram Group entitled Weapons (it might be Weapon with no 's'). It has very few pictures, but is full of line drawings, and includes a good variety of weapons from the stone age up throught WWII.

-Grey



Greyson, I jjust bought a Dorling Kindersly (sp?) book named Weapons for $30. It has, as you said, weapons from the stone age to now. it may be the one you're talknig about?
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George Hill




Location: Atlanta Ga
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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jim Bond wrote:

@ George: Who is this Fiore that you mentioned?.


Fiore is an Italian weapons instructor from the Knightly age. Three books on his style of combat survive, and he teaches sword, dagger, spear, poleaxe, a few other things, and a heck of alot of wrestling.

Personally I study the German rather then Italian styles, but I am familiar with a few things from Fiore, since they tend to be great for providing examples.

To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania
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Addison C. de Lisle




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PostPosted: Tue 14 Nov, 2006 7:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jim Bond wrote:
I will also be making a trip to the Metropolitan Museum of Art NYC soon to do some research...


Definately worth the trip. As I recall though a lot of the pole arms on display there seemed more ceremonial rather than functional...but that may have just been in incorrect impression (this was a few years back before I knew about this site Wink )

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Adam Bodorics
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Nov, 2006 6:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jim: I've read the manga 5 times so far, and watched the anime 6-7 times... Eek! Laughing Out Loud
Miura did a very fine job, especially in the last, say, 20 books, only special characters have very strange stuff, like the demon soldiers - but most of those would work well as well... and only the first few episodes had armour with a very strong WTF??? factor. Big Grin
The kushan army has very nice examples of near eastern-indian mixed arms&armours, so far, I couldn't find anything which did not exist at some time in history - some of the mail&plate armours even have the mail weave correctly illustrated. Eek!
...
Another nice source is the forum at vikingswords.com/vb/... they focus on exotic weapons, with a little patience, you can find extremely nice stuff there...
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Greyson Brown




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PostPosted: Wed 15 Nov, 2006 7:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Richard Fay wrote:
Hey Greyson,

I beat you to it by two minutes! (I just posted the same recommendations.)Big Grin
What is it they say, great minds think alike? Big Grin

Stay safe!


My grandmother also used to point out that all fools agree. Either way, I guess that is what I get for typing slow.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Greyson Brown




Location: Windsor, Colorado
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Nov, 2006 7:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Grayson C. wrote:
Quote:
Another good book, that I am fairly certain is out of print but seems to be in most libraries, is from The Diagram Group entitled Weapons (it might be Weapon with no 's'). It has very few pictures, but is full of line drawings, and includes a good variety of weapons from the stone age up throught WWII.

-Grey



Greyson, I jjust bought a Dorling Kindersly (sp?) book named Weapons for $30. It has, as you said, weapons from the stone age to now. it may be the one you're talknig about?


It could be. I don't think an author was listed in the book I mentioned, just that it was compiled and edited by the Diagram Group, so I'm not certain. I don't own that one, I've just checked it out from the library in the past.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Richard Fay




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PostPosted: Wed 15 Nov, 2006 10:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello all!

Sorry to be jumping ahead of you again, Greyson, but...

The book Weapons An International Encyclopedia from 5000 BC to 2000 AD by the Diagram Group is a different book from the DK book Weapon. The Diagram book has mostly line drawings, and covers everything up to modern arms (circa 1980's). I believe it was revised and reprinted a few years ago, but it may now be out of print. I bet it can be found used, since it was a mass printing.

The DK book is a recent book with lots of colour photos. I believe they were specially commissioned photos from the Royal Armouries Collection. I'm not sure if I would rely on the text in the DK book, but the pictures are amazing!

I have both books. Jim and Grayson, you might glean something about these books if you check out my reading list! The Diagram Weapon book might even be available through the bookstore on this site; check it out!

In the meanwhile, I've found a couple more "weird and wonderful" weapons from Stone's glossary. The chilanum is "an Indian dagger with a doubly curved, double-edged blade. The pommel and guard are of nearly the same shape and size and are usually forged in one piece with the blade. The shape of the blade is derived from that of the old horn knives..." Stone shows one very interesting example of this type of dagger with a heavy forked blade with serrated edges. It definitely has a "fantasy' look to it, but it is a historical weapon.

Another "strange and bizarre" weapon is the Chinese fang. It is "a Chinese weapon having an iron handle about two feet long with a blade in line with it and another at right angles to it. Each is about five inches long and double-edged."

Some of the pole arms that Stone calls "guisarmes" are odd, too, with a curved blade, often like a bill or a scythe. with a short horizontal bar out the back that supports a long vertical spike. I believe I saw some of these in person at the Higgins Armoury, and they definitely look strange!

Oh, Greyson, I hope we're not both fools! Big Grin I wouldn't consider you a fool, based on what you've posted here, especially your projects. I hope I don't sound like a fool! Do I? Wink

(Maybe we're both fools for arms and armour, but isn't that why we hang out here? Big Grin )

Stay safe!

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
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