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Nick Trueman





Joined: 27 Mar 2006

Posts: 246

PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct, 2006 11:37 pm    Post subject: The Lee Enfield         Reply with quote

Ok

I saw the post about the colt/grips and modern pistols and it inspired me to post a topic about my favorite modern (?) firearm.
The no1 mk3 lee enfield, has to be one of the most elegant military rifles ever to be designed and I love them.
I own a mk3 and a mrk 4 and cant look at any other rifle. ( but then I dont hunt either, not my thing) Anyway my no1 is approaching a century, made 1913 it has 7 yrs to go before getting a letter from the queen.
Anyway this post is mainly to see how others out there like this rifle and maybe share some pics.

thanks

ps the pic isnt my rifle, but one of its sisters. Mine looks exactly the same

Nick



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Allan Senefelder
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Location: Upstate NY
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct, 2006 4:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I love mine ! Made in Australia in 1917, it shoots like a dream. The only thing i've noticed is this, i've read accounts from the early months of the WWI by German troops who thought they were under fire from machine guns but it was in fact soldiers of the BEF who were trained to fire thier Enfields rapidly and accurately, the action on mine seems to prefer being fired this way. Not that there's any true difference, its just that when slamming the bolt back and forth in rapid succession it seems just a touch smoother than when I slowly action it when firing sinlge aimed shots. The weight is perfect and keeps muzzel kick to a minimum. I've got a bayonet for mine.
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Nick Trueman





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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct, 2006 5:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Excellent!

I dont get much of a chance to do any rapid fire technique, firstly by law in Australia shooting ranges can only allow the user to chamber one round manually. So the magazine has got to be empty or they wont let you on. Secondly I live close to the city so I dont get much of a chance to go shooting on private property.
Ive heard the same story about germans thinking they were under machine gun fire. I think its credible, the action is very fast as you say and very relliable.
My 1913 version is in good nic blueing and wood are quite nice. The bore has been used extensively though, but still shoots quite well.
The mk4 I shoot alot more, Im not so precious about it, its still a nice rifle though.

Ps do you have one of the Lithgow made mk3's ? Im inline to buy a lithgow very soon.

Nick
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Daniel Staberg




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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've read some of the German post battle reports and asesments for the battle of Mons. The German commanders at the sharped were convinced that the BEF had deployed a pair of machine guns in support of each platoon, in reality the BEFhad two machine guns to a battalion. The realities of 'modern war' shocked both sides, the British commanders belvied that their 3 mile front had been subjected to an unprecendented concentration of artillery fire. In reality the Germans had employed three battalions of 77mm guns, one battalion of 105mm howitzers and battalion of 150mm howitizers (the last unit had it's fire corrected by airplane).

The No1 Mk3 Lee-Enfield was probably the finest battle rifle of it's day. While it is not superior to it's contemporaries in every area (Some Mauser versions are a a bit more accurate, the Mosin-Nagant is more soldier-proof and so on) but no other gun achives the same level of over-all excellence IMHO.
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Bryce Felperin




Location: San Jose, CA
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Got a beautiful Enfield myself that I bought for $300 at a gun show several years ago. It's also an Australian from WWII, but it's never been fired. It was supposedly part of a shipment in WWII that sat in a warehouse for 40 years until being discovered. The guy who sold it to me said he never got around to firing it either, and a look down the barrel seems to confirm that. I bought it on spec just in case he was right and have kept the original box as well.

I put it in a gun sock in the back of my gun safe for "safe keeping" literally. It's in great shape and I even have a box of 20 .303 rounds for it...but I just can't bring myself to "break its cherry". :-)

I sometimes take it out and work that beautiful action though just because I love how it handles. It's almost as good a sex! ;-)
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Nick Trueman





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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct, 2006 11:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Daniel Staberg wrote:
I've read some of the German post battle reports and asesments for the battle of Mons. The German commanders at the sharped were convinced that the BEF had deployed a pair of machine guns in support of each platoon, in reality the BEFhad two machine guns to a battalion. The realities of 'modern war' shocked both sides, the British commanders belvied that their 3 mile front had been subjected to an unprecendented concentration of artillery fire. In reality the Germans had employed three battalions of 77mm guns, one battalion of 105mm howitzers and battalion of 150mm howitizers (the last unit had it's fire corrected by airplane).

The No1 Mk3 Lee-Enfield was probably the finest battle rifle of it's day. While it is not superior to it's contemporaries in every area (Some Mauser versions are a a bit more accurate, the Mosin-Nagant is more soldier-proof and so on) but no other gun achives the same level of over-all excellence IMHO.


Hi

Its amazing to think that this war is almost a century old. I was reading some of the casualty reports from the Somme, Ypres 123 ect Its shocking! The utter lack and disregard for the everyday soldiers life was appauling. I really feel for those poor buggers no matter what side they were on.

There are no Australian 1st world war veterans alive today.


I agree the mauser was a more accurate rifle, the mosin I do not know much about?

N
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct, 2006 3:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allan Senefelder wrote:
... I've read accounts from the early months of the WWI by German troops who thought they were under fire from machine guns but it was in fact soldiers of the BEF who were trained to fire thier Enfields rapidly and accurately ....
Can't remember precisely where I heard this (perhaps from my grandfather Grisetti, who was in the British Army for the full stretch of WWI) but, as I recall, this was called "the mad minute", and the soldiers were supposed to achieve 15 rounds per minute. When that is coming from every soldier, 15 rounds per minute could be devastating.

Nick Trueman wrote:
Its amazing to think that this war is almost a century old. I was reading some of the casualty reports from the Somme, Ypres 123 ect Its shocking! The utter lack and disregard for the everyday soldiers life was appauling. I really feel for those poor buggers no matter what side they were on.
My grandfather told me some stories about this. An awful, horrific experience!

Quote:
There are no Australian 1st world war veterans alive today.
Not really a surprise, as a young man of 18 at the end of the war would be 106 years old by now. My grandfather was quite old, about 86, when he passed away in 1981.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct, 2006 4:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a fine rifle Nick. I had one of those myself along with most of the other contemporary bolt actions when I went through that particular phase of my firearms exprerience. I agree with Daniel about the Enfield arguably being the best overall bolt action rifle of the period. The Mauser design is a great system but not as refined as the Enfield in some aspects. The Mosin-Nagant is a great rifle when you consider it was built to be used and maintained by peasants, but is horribly over-engineered in some respects. The US 1903 Springfield is one of the most aesthetically beautiful rifles of any era but also one of the most over-rated. Take care of that fine old warhorse, there won't be any more of them made.

BTW, the last US veteran of WWI passed away about a year ago. Before too long we'll see the last of our WWII veterans follow.
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

(quote) Can't remember precisely where I heard this (perhaps from my grandfather Grisetti, who was in the British Army for the full stretch of WWI) but, as I recall, this was called "the mad minute", and the soldiers were supposed to achieve 15 rounds per minute. When that is coming from every soldier, 15 rounds per minute could be devastating.

The "mad minute", while it may have originated earlier, was a feature of the Vietnam War. At a prearranged time, all soldiers in a particular area would discharge their weapons as rapidly as possible at the perceived location of the enemy. This would go on for about sixty seconds. A platoon of GIs with M-16s, M-40s and M-60s, along with mortar and LAW rounds could produce a hell of a lot of firepower in a confined space. Whether or not enemy soldiers were actually killed in all this was secondary to the fact that it was good for morale and demonstrated to the VC and NVA what they would be facing should they decide to attack.

I have four Enfields, a number 1 MkIII, Lithgow, a Fazackerly No. 4 and two Long Branch No. 4s. The Fazackerly is brand new and will go hunting with me this year.

The Enfield WAS the best bolt action rifle of WWII, in my opinion, with the Mauser second.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Douglas G.





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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct, 2006 6:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice Enfield there!

I have to agree with those who feel the Lee bolt action rifle was the best. Mine is somewhat older and not an
Enfield but rather a Lee Remington in .45-70 caliber. Lee was an American you know!

Best,
Doug
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Nick Trueman





Joined: 27 Mar 2006

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PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct, 2006 12:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Take care of that fine old warhorse, there won't be any more of them made.

Forsure! I think its our duty as collectors to hang on to these assorted things wich alot of people could not care less about.
I hardly ever fire it, I usually take the no4 to the range even though its getting on too! BTW it is also a longbranch no 4. 1943.

I really am a bit of a pacifist but I can still really appreciate what those guys and girls did for all of us during the 1st and 2nd ww.
I also think it is a shame that kids now days dont learn much (In Australia that is) military history. I mean ANZAC day has come into vogue over here in the last few years. But I dont think the school syllabus really goes into depth ( correct me if Im wrong) about what some of these people had to suffer.

My Lee may have a terrible history, it may have taken somebodys life, it was most probably used somewhere on the western front or the Dardenelles and it was concieved with one idea in mind, To take somebodies life! I find that deplorable but I can still appreciate its functional beauty and I definitely appreciate those poor blokes they were sending into the trenches.

Ahhh getting a bit deppresing!

Looks like everyone agrees that it was the top bolt action during both wars? The 10 round mag must of made a huge impact considering the other makes were taking only 5 rounds.
The m1 garand is nice too! Ive never fired one, purely going on aesthetics. Does anyone have a garand?

N

Nick
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Nick Trueman





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PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct, 2006 12:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A nice repro of a Australian 1st WW uniform!


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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct, 2006 7:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nick Trueman wrote:
... The m1 garand is nice too! Ive never fired one, purely going on aesthetics. Does anyone have a garand? ...
Yes, I have a Winchester-manufactured M1 Garand. I bought it for about US$60 in 1963. Learned about "M1 Thumb" the hard way Eek! ! And managed to get most of my other fingers, as well, at some time or other over the past 40 years! As I recall, it shoots fast and accurately, but it has been a long time since it shot a target (or anything else) in anger. These days, it is kept like my swords: cleaned, oiled, dry-handled, admired, but not used as the maker intended.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct, 2006 8:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lin Robinson wrote:
... The "mad minute", while it may have originated earlier, was a feature of the Vietnam War ...
Well, I could be mixing my memories with that term. I am an "old-fart" after all Confused . As for the British rate of fire, however, I have managed to find an actual reference Cool :
Richard Holmes, in Britain at War wrote:
The .303 Lee-Enfield rifle carried by infantry and cavalry alike was sighted up to 2000 yards (1830 metres) and men shot regularly at targets 600 yards (550 metres) away. They were expected to put fifteen shots a minute into the 2-foot (60-cm) circle of a target 300 yards (225 metres) away, and many could do better. Marksmen received proficiency pay which added to the pleasures a man might find foaming in the wet canteen or loitering outside the barrack gate.
(note - I have added the italics for emphasis)
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct, 2006 10:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
The m1 garand is nice too! Ive never fired one, purely going on aesthetics. Does anyone have a garand?






Big Grin
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oooh, Patrick, yours is pretty. Here is a closeup of my Garand, demonstrating how to apply "M1 Thumb" to a careless owner. The rifle still has a coat of varnish that a prior owner put on it, many decades ago. I should really strip that varnish off.


 Attachment: 47.31 KB
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M1 Thumb - OUCH!

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct, 2006 2:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Steve. My daughter and her husband have a serious love interest with that particular rifle. That means I'd never be able to sell it even if I wanted to and I know who gets it when the time comes.

I've never loaded my thumb but I did it to my index finger once. I'm glad no one was home at the time as I jumped around the garage screaming like a baby for quite a while. Eek!
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Thanks Steve. My daughter and her husband have a serious love interest with that particular rifle. That means I'd never be able to sell it even if I wanted to and I know who gets it when the time comes.

I've never loaded my thumb but I did it to my index finger once. I'm glad no one was home at the time as I jumped around the garage screaming like a baby for quite a while. Eek!


Yup, that happened once. Evil Eek! OUCH OUCH OUCH !

I have 2 Garands: One in 30.06 with a new stock and a " tanker " model in .308 ( No real original ones are know to have been made " officially " sort of a myth I think that some field armorers may have made a few. Real handy though ! )

Nice shooting but awkward for a lefty. Laughing Out Loud I found a couple of original ways to load one using fingers instead of thumb and the other using the right thumb by canting the Garand with cocking handle down facing the ground I can sort of load with my right hand if I make believe I'm a Cirque du Soleil contortionist. Eek! Laughing Out Loud

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Nick Trueman





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PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct, 2006 8:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi

Patrick that Garand is in really good shape, did you restore it at all? Is it a 2nd WW model or korean war?

Ok whats happening with the thumbs? Does the action engage when you push the clip in?


N
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct, 2006 10:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nick Trueman wrote:
Hi

Patrick that Garand is in really good shape, did you restore it at all? Is it a 2nd WW model or korean war?

Ok whats happening with the thumbs? Does the action engage when you push the clip in?


N


Thanks,

When I bought the rifle the stock had already been refinished and some of the parts possessed their original finish, while some were nearly in the white with little or no finish remaining. Other than the surface finish everything was in great shape. Since the rifle wasn't in original unaltered condition I refinshed many of the parts myself, in order to make it as nice as possible. I wasn't concerned about collectability since it was a shooter rather than a museum piece. All of the parts are Springfield manufacture except for the front sight, which is a Winchester part. The Springfield parts range from WWII era to Korean war era.

When reloading the M1 one of the common mistakes lies in not pulling the operating rod completely to the rear. Instead of locking in place it will catch on the follower, so when a clip is inserted the bolt will fly forward catching the thumb. When a clip is inserted the bolt should automatically strip a round from the clip and chamber it. However, this happens far quicker when the bolt is only held open by the follower. The easiest way to avoid this is to insert the clip with the thumb while keeping the four fingers of the hand down along the side of the receiver, thereby catching the operating rod if the action flies forward.
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