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Matt Phillips




Location: England
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PostPosted: Fri 15 Sep, 2006 4:17 pm    Post subject: Beowulf sword         Reply with quote

Hello friends. I was just surfing around and saw something new on reliks.com, http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=2548. It's an opportunity to pre-order the sword of Beowulf, or at least a replica of the sword seen in the movie "Beowulf and Grendel." I'll admit I watched and enjoyed the movie. But I have to say I don't remember this sword being in it. In any case it appears to be Windlass' newest offering and I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts on this new sword. I know what I think about it, but what does everyone else think about a ring-hilt on a 12th century blade? I guess I'm just bummed because I was kind of looking forward to this sword. When the newsletter came out a couple of months ago and announced the upcoming Beowulf sword, it piqued my interest. I really wanted to see what kind of Migration Era sword Windlass/MRL would come up with. So what does everyone think?[/url]
Matt

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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 15 Sep, 2006 6:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My opinion: for Windlass quality it looks pretty decent. For an accurate and qualitative example of a migration era sword it sucks hind tit. I like the fact that it actually has a ring on the hilt as that's one of my favorite features on migration era swords. I also like the decorative element on the scabbard. Other than that: a brown painted scabbard and white plastic upper and lower guard components? Yech.

Personally I think Kirk Spencer needs to acquire one when it eventually goes on sale. Kirk works magic with improving the aesthetics of these lower end swords. He might be able to turn it into something attractive.
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Hugo Voisine





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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 6:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When I saw the movie I was pretty sure his sword was the "Lombard sword" from Del Tin. Guess I was wrong.

Is it me or the fullers on the Windlass "movies" swords always look a bit too thin ? Look at the swords from KoH...
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 7:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hugo Voisine wrote:
When I saw the movie I was pretty sure his sword was the "Lombard sword" from Del Tin. Guess I was wrong.

Is it me or the fullers on the Windlass "movies" swords always look a bit too thin ? Look at the swords from KoH...

Some historic swords had thin fullers, but not ring-hilts as far as I know. (Of course, they wouldn't have had monosteel blades, either.) Since Windlass does have viking-style blades with broader fullers, I would have preferred one of those blades for this piece. But I am not in the market for one of these at present anyway.

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John Cooksey




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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 8:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:
Hugo Voisine wrote:
When I saw the movie I was pretty sure his sword was the "Lombard sword" from Del Tin. Guess I was wrong.

Is it me or the fullers on the Windlass "movies" swords always look a bit too thin ? Look at the swords from KoH...

Some historic swords had thin fullers, but not ring-hilts as far as I know. (Of course, they wouldn't have had monosteel blades, either.) Since Windlass does have viking-style blades with broader fullers, I would have preferred one of those blades for this piece. But I am not in the market for one of these at present anyway.


Eh? Some Migration-period swords *did* have pommels with attached rings, and pattern-welding on sword blades of that long era was not universal. There were some monsteel blades in circulation throughout the period. According to Peterson, most of the Norwegian swords that he examined from the Late Migration/Early Viking era were not patternwelded.

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Matt Phillips




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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm with you Patrick, I'd love to see what Kirk Spencer could do with something like this. I like that Windlass put more detail into the hilt, but for me the blade just doesn't do it for me.

I agree, Hugo, I also swore that was a Del Tin in the movie. That's why I was so confused when I saw the thin fuller on this sword. [/quote]

Matt

"Mine honour is my life; both grow in one; take honour from me and my life is done." William Shakespear
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J. Bedell




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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm with Patrick, the first thing I noticed were the white plastice guard components. It really diminishes the look of the sword. I like the ring, that actually looks pretty nice. The fuller, I agree, is too thin and in my opinion too short. Could be nice with a little customization...


-James

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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

John Cooksey wrote:
Steve Grisetti wrote:
Hugo Voisine wrote:
When I saw the movie I was pretty sure his sword was the "Lombard sword" from Del Tin. Guess I was wrong.

Is it me or the fullers on the Windlass "movies" swords always look a bit too thin ? Look at the swords from KoH...

Some historic swords had thin fullers, but not ring-hilts as far as I know. (Of course, they wouldn't have had monosteel blades, either.) Since Windlass does have viking-style blades with broader fullers, I would have preferred one of those blades for this piece. But I am not in the market for one of these at present anyway.


Eh? Some Migration-period swords *did* have pommels with attached rings, and pattern-welding on sword blades of that long era was not universal. There were some monsteel blades in circulation throughout the period. According to Peterson, most of the Norwegian swords that he examined from the Late Migration/Early Viking era were not patternwelded.


I may be wrong but I believe Steve is referring to the narrower fuller in relation to migration era ring hilts. I don't think he's saying that ring hilts weren't present during the migration era. I agree that the late migration-early viking age sees the beginning of the transition from pattern-welded blades to mono-steel ones. However, since the poem Beowulf specifically mentions pattern-welded blades I think a sword representing that character should have one. Windlass/MRL sells pseudo- PW'd swords so I think using one of those blades (with a wide fuller too) would have been a better choice. Substituting a light colored wood for the white plastic, which is obviously supposed to be bone or ivory, would have been better as well.
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 5:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

We're sure it's plastic? That just seems idiotic...
The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 6:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
...I may be wrong but I believe Steve is referring to the narrower fuller in relation to migration era ring hilts. I don't think he's saying that ring hilts weren't present during the migration era....
Thanks, Patrick. You are correct. I was specifically referring to the fuller.
Quote:
...I agree that the late migration-early viking age sees the beginning of the transition from pattern-welded blades to mono-steel ones...
Am I wrong when I think of the ring-hilt swords as being more early migration era?
Quote:
Substituting a light colored wood for the white plastic, which is obviously supposed to be bone or ivory, would have been better as well.
YES! As Alex asked, are you sure it is plastic? (It does kinda look like plastic from the photo)
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:
]Am I wrong when I think of the ring-hilt swords as being more early migration era?


I agree. Swords with actual rings seem to come from a bit earlier in the period. Many of the later examples have vestigial rings. These are components that are fashioned in the shape of a ring but are a solid piece. Del Tin offers a version of such a sword. I also think a pattern welded blade would fit better with a sword of this style.

Quote:
As Alex asked, are you sure it is plastic? (It does kinda look like plastic from the photo)


I'd honestly be surprised if it wasn't. Ivory might be a solid white color like that but it's far beyond the price point of this sword. Bone usually has some kind of color variation and that looks awfully white for that. So no I'm not sure but I'd be willing to bet on it.

Valentine Armouries made the arms and armor for the movie and they made an unauthorized copy of this custom sword by J.T. Palikko, for use in the movie.

Valentine did admit they'd copied the sword from an internet source supplied by the production company but claimed they didn't know where it came from. I'm not sure if anything was resolved on the issue or if Mr. Palikko ever really pressed it. Regardless of that issue, this one is a fine example of a sword made in the migration era style and I'm sure that isn't white plastic.

You can see a bad angle of VA's version in this still photo from VA's website.


Overall I like the armor in this movie, from what I've seen in photos. I think they captured the period fairly well. However, I hate that leather scale armor. That's totally unsubstantiated and completely "Hollywood". It really destroys the look for me personally and the pop rivets don't help. It would have been far better to stick with the byrnies alone.


Last edited by Patrick Kelly on Sat 16 Sep, 2006 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Alex Oster




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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Big Grin Much nicer example Patrick!

I had a "swept hilted" rapier from MRL a while back, and the handle was bone-ish. After handling it for a year, the color changed more yellow, hair sized lined became aparent, and a small chip near the pomel gave me the idea it was bone. It sure looked licite or plastic when I got it though. The same went for the Hanwei gladius I bought later on. After breaking the handle, I found out for sure it was bone.... Blush

However, its MRL, and my hopes aren't high in any case...

Agreed on the armor. It reminds me of when Crowe pulled out the madmax spikey helm in Gladiator.... I just groaned (again).

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 7:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd feel a lot better about it if I knew it was bone. That fact itself might make me consider buying one for a project piece. Sure looks like plastic to me though. I'd be happy to be proven wrong on that point.

http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=2548&close=4
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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had the Windlass bone-gripped rapier, too. It was made of cow bone. The Hanwei rapier I had was also bone, but it was a prototype and I believe that Hanwei later released it with a plastic grip.
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Alex Oster




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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep, 2006 9:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would think, if its bone, that some tea or (is it "linseed"?) oil would make it come out nice.
The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2006 4:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alex Oster wrote:
I would think, if its bone, that some tea or (is it "linseed"?) oil would make it come out nice.


I agree. Staining it with tea would lessen the white color and bring out any natural coloe variance in the bone. I'd also do a lot of aging to the blade to make it inaccuracies less obvious.
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2006 6:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Happy It's looks someway good that Beowulf sword for to be an movie sword aftermarket, sad it have a poor made grip and blade. Sad
Here are a pic from one hilt of that age, More stuff can be found in Halvgrimr's Archives.


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Alex Oster




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2006 7:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From the examples show so far in this thread, it would seem the proportions are off in the MRL version. The (whatever they are made of) spacers are way too thick. This brings about the usual, "if your going to do it: do it right" feeling I get when I see a production piece.
The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
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Chad Sonderberg




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2006 4:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Which of Beowulf's swords is this one meant to represent?

I know of two that he carried based upon the stories of him and I'm sure their were probably a few more. I know that this one is not Hrunting as the blade of said sword is not wavy. Any ideas as to which one this replica is suppose to represent?

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Alex Oster




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure its just the one from the movie... Beowulf & Grendel, starring Gerald Butler.
The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
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