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Shawn Shaw




Location: Boston, MA USA
Joined: 07 Jan 2006

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 5:31 am    Post subject: Name that helmet...         Reply with quote

Hey Guys-

I'm in the market for an SCA helm that would be appropriate for someone in 6th C. Britain/Wales. Then I get an email with the attached picture. He tells me its a roman gladiator helm but to me it looks like the SCA version of an archetypal viking helm.

Anyone want to speculate on a time and geographic origin for this kind of design?

Thanks!



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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 5:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

no i dont think it would be a good choice for what you want.

if there was any armour in 6thc wales and u wanted a "roman feel" i would go with a 4-6 paneled spangenhelm with cheekplates and a nasal.

but historically speaking i'm not aware of much armour in wales that would be different than teh rest of england, and also the roman influence would be partially removed while the saxon influence would be there foremost. but that being said i would still use a spangenhelmet
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Shawn Shaw




Location: Boston, MA USA
Joined: 07 Jan 2006

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 6:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm building an SCA version of a coppergate, I'm just looking at this while I work on mine.

:-)
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

Posts: 634

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

North America, 20th/21st Century
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Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 446

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 6:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shaun,
as an arthur freak, and welsh on the mam's side, this is a period of great interest for me. Also I know a bit about the SCA, I began stick fighting bck in 89, though I only did Pennsic for three wars and went on to other pass-times (only so many days in a week!), so I do know something about their rules and regulations. I also used to help Michael Dabek sell his arms and armors at Pennsic.
Ok, enough of the pedigree. I am of the opinion,and that's all it is as we don't have much in way of texts to analyse, or artwork to compare, that the 5th, 6th, and 7th century briton would have been a composite of what we consider latter day roman and saxon armors. The Sutton Hoo find, which is deemed saxon by the symbols, would provide a good prototype of what I believe would have been fairly universal for western europe in that time frame. Wether Visigothic or Welsh, Breton or Frank, the spangenhelm construction seems to have been the order of the day , with or without cheek plates, with or without mail, or even with or without nasals, all items being subject to personnal preference and possible regional aesthetics.
When applying this to the particular context of SCA rules with regard to stick fighting freestyle as they do, you have to factor in the need for rigid protection for the lower part of the head, back to the neck region, and the lower part of the face and chin regions, with either full or barred protection at the required distance (is it still an inch and some?)
I personnally would ask Senefelder to see if he could adapt on of his ''saxon'' spangens to meet SCA requirements. His products have the general look applicable to that time frame, and as 6th century britons were victorious(for a while ) against the Saissons, it would make perfect sense to think that they would keep the spoils of victory, including an occasional nicely made helm...Also you could check out Raymond's Quiet Press for brass pieces of that period, he used to make all the necessary kit for putting together a SCA valid Sutton Hoo type of helm, if you can't find Raymond on the search enine, go by Bohemond's boots, they used to work together.
O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau
Hwyl fawr
Jean-Carle Hudon

Bon coeur et bon bras
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Shawn Shaw




Location: Boston, MA USA
Joined: 07 Jan 2006

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 7:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Geoff Wood wrote:
North America, 20th/21st Century



Really? You don't say...

Thanks, Jean-Carle. The Coppergate (as I'm sure you know) is a spangenhelm but I do have to make some rather serious modifications (e.g. adding a face grill, adding a plate around the back of the head, and probably removing the hinges on the cheek guards) but such is the life of the SCA.

If anyone's interested, I've come across a couple of neat websites that give patterns for the Coppergate and I'd be happy to post the links.
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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 918

PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2006 3:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a roman-drakulian-gothic helmet from XV century inner Valdrachia, nice stainless steel 0.5 mm thick replica directly from a set of Drakul the Vampir, early seventies cult movie starryng a young Sylvester Stallone as Ivan Ramblin the Hero and Schwarzie as The Monster Half-Cousin of Drakula the Impaler.
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2006 5:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Geoff Wood wrote:
North America, 20th/21st Century


naa i'd say indian Wink
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Shawn Shaw




Location: Boston, MA USA
Joined: 07 Jan 2006

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2006 6:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bruno Giordan wrote:
This is a roman-drakulian-gothic helmet from XV century inner Valdrachia, nice stainless steel 0.5 mm thick replica directly from a set of Drakul the Vampir, early seventies cult movie starryng a young Sylvester Stallone as Ivan Ramblin the Hero and Schwarzie as The Monster Half-Cousin of Drakula the Impaler.



Are you serious?
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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 918

PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2006 5:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shawn Shaw wrote:
Bruno Giordan wrote:
This is a roman-drakulian-gothic helmet from XV century inner Valdrachia, nice stainless steel 0.5 mm thick replica directly from a set of Drakul the Vampir, early seventies cult movie starryng a young Sylvester Stallone as Ivan Ramblin the Hero and Schwarzie as The Monster Half-Cousin of Drakula the Impaler.



Are you serious?


obviously no

Laughing Out Loud
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Shawn Shaw




Location: Boston, MA USA
Joined: 07 Jan 2006

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2006 7:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

LOL, Ok....
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