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Joel Whitmore




Location: Simmesport, LA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 342

PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2006 6:20 am    Post subject: What's up with the Flos Duellatorum?         Reply with quote

Anyone know anything about the delays in the translation of Fiore's masterpiece? This translation has been listed on Amazon since 2001 and still nothing. I checked this morning and Amazon again has it listed for a December 30th release date. Should I get excitde or is this just another feint? Amazon, strangely enough has two versions listed, both by Bob Charron. One is published by Chivalry Bookshelf (300 pages) while the other is listed at 400 pages and to be published by Boydell&Brewer. Both slated for December 30th. Is there some kind of legal hassel? What would be the 100-page difference? Anyone?


Joel
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Keith Nelson




Location: Kalamazoo, MI, USA
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2006 8:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They'll be out when they come out. I know that the interpretation & translation from Bob Charron has changed multiple times in the past 5 years, necessitating multiple delays. Also, there have been delays on the Getty side, with gettting good quality images of the manuscript. Finally, I don't know what the difference is between the 2, although it looks like one comes up as a Translation and the other as an Interpretation.

Keith
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Edward Hitchens




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 9 books

Posts: 818

PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm only speculating, but I would wager that Medieval Italian is a much different dialect than modern Italian, and therefore the task of translating it to 'modern' English is far more daunting.

Idea It's also worth pondering whether Flos Duellatorum really is written entirely in Italian. The only type of person who can really make that determination would (1) have to be fluent in modern Italian, (2) have at least some familiarity with Medieval dialects, and (3) have really studied the manuscript. While the work is predominately Italian, there could be a considerable amount of German words and phrases in the work; I mention this because the most familiar longsword treatises (to my knowledge) have originated from Germany and Italy. By contrast, could Liechtenauer or Ringeck have placed Italian words or phrases in their works? I don't see why not.

I'm sure I could add to my argument, but you get the idea. Don't forget that the translation/interpretation must also go through editors and publishers and what not. Joel and I will probably be the first to bag a copy when it comes out! Cool

"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
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Nicholas Zeman





Joined: 09 May 2005

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2006 1:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As far as I know, the planned translation and interpretation of the Getty Fior Di Battaglia has been delayed several times due to changes of interpretation by Bob Charron and his desire to get it right instead of hurry out a flawed work. Even the Getty Museum has basically stated that they will not be processing any more requests for high res scans in the near future, due to too many people wanting a copy of the manuscript. It's unfortunate, for all of us, that this great work has yet to be published for the benefit of everyone, even a straight up translation and high res images of it in color would be wonderful, because it is such an important and rare piece of work from a time period before the printing press. There are medium and low res digital copies floating around the community, and Matt Easton has much of it translated on his website www.fioredeiliberi.org, which is a great resource. The Novati facsimile of the Flos Duelletorum, which is a copy of the now lost Pissani Dossi manuscript, is widely available online and is out of copywrite. There are similiarties and differences between this manuscript and the more complete Getty version, most notably the more technical and lengthy descriptions of each technique and plate.
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Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 601

PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2006 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: What's up with the Flos Duellatorum?         Reply with quote

Joel Whitmore wrote:
Anyone know anything about the delays in the translation of Fiore's masterpiece? This translation has been listed on Amazon since 2001 and still nothing. I checked this morning and Amazon again has it listed for a December 30th release date. Should I get excitde or is this just another feint? Amazon, strangely enough has two versions listed, both by Bob Charron. One is published by Chivalry Bookshelf (300 pages) while the other is listed at 400 pages and to be published by Boydell&Brewer. Both slated for December 30th. Is there some kind of legal hassel? What would be the 100-page difference? Anyone?


Joel


Once upon a time there was to be a two volume set; a facsmile & translation and an interpretation. Further investigation of the book details suggests the two volumes will be produced by separate publishers. I heard the December 2006 date from the author in August. Since he has confidence that all the ducks are in a row... I'm preordering. I really need a full colour copy of the Getty. Bob's translations of the less popular sections (ie. axe, equestrian) will be welcome. Few people are working on them.

Oh, yeah. The Getty manuscript is in the northern dialect of Friuli which our internal Italian scholar describes as "a country bumpkin trying to sound courtly." One prologue and the epilogue of the Novati copy are written in Latin. The rest is in the Friuli/Venetian dialect. (IIRC!) It would be a challenging task for a Renaissance Italian literature scholar let along a non-Italian medievalist with no formal translation training. Mr. Charron has done absolutely outstanding work to complete this in five years of independent study. He has remarkable perseverance.

Kel
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