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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Fri 08 Sep, 2006 4:23 pm    Post subject: A&A September Highlight Item         Reply with quote

Wow here it is September already. Is it just here or does time seem to be flying by this year?

We have our September Highlight Item for your perusual. This month it is a new item in our catalog. A few of you may have seen these at some of the Fairs but it is now online ready to ship and is a great thing for those who have the space to throw stuff in the back yard. It is a Javelin.



check out our Newspage for details

Hope all have a great beginning of fall Happy

Best from A&A
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Fri 08 Sep, 2006 4:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd get into trouble with one of those to tossaround the backyard.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Fri 08 Sep, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice. Cool

I wonder if quivers were ever used to carry multiple javelins into battle ? Having 3 to 6 would seem to me to be the useful range of numbers one could carry at one time as opposed to the 12 to 48 arrows an archer could have on him.

Much fewer missiles: But one should be able to recover them after a break in the action and re-use ones' javelins or those of fellow warriors or even the enemies javelins.

Just speculations: A more heavily armed and armoured fighter might carry just one of these and a regular sized spear while light infantry might carry multiple javelins. Without some sort of quiver 3 javelin would be the maximum or alternatively 2 javelins + 1 spear and shield ?

The Roman pilum seemed designed for one throw only as the metal shaft would bend on impact and become useless to an enemy to throw back: Probably easy to straiten and repair recovered pilum after the fight.

Seems like a " choice " between being able to re-use immediately thrown javelins, at the risk of having them used against yourself, with the advantage of not running out of missiles versus one use per pilum per fight !?

Oh, at the price, it's going to be hard to NOT get one added to my order. Wink

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J. Bedell




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PostPosted: Fri 08 Sep, 2006 5:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm definitely getting one of these as soon as the parents allow the purchase of more pointies!
Can't wait to get one, it looks great....I love this piece.
Missile weapons are great, I'm glad to see a nice repro javelin.

-James

The pen may be mighter, but the sword is much more fun.
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Christian Henry Tobler
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PostPosted: Fri 08 Sep, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Craig!

I bought two of these via Jesse at our booth at Pennsic. They really perform fantastically and I'm clearly going to need at *least* two more for my guys!

Great stuff as always.

All the best,

Christian

Christian Henry Tobler
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Author, In Saint George's Name: An Anthology of Medieval German Fighting Arts
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George Hill




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PostPosted: Fri 08 Sep, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Nice. Cool

I wonder if quivers were ever used to carry multiple javelins into battle ? Having 3 to 6 would seem to me to be the useful range of numbers one could carry at one time as opposed to the 12 to 48 arrows an archer could have on him.
[/b]



I think so. I saw an islamic javelin case once, it was like a big cigar case (with a cap, rather then the sort of thing that flipped open from the side.) It held three of them.

To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Fri 08 Sep, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

George Hill wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Nice. Cool

I wonder if quivers were ever used to carry multiple javelins into battle ? Having 3 to 6 would seem to me to be the useful range of numbers one could carry at one time as opposed to the 12 to 48 arrows an archer could have on him.
[/b]



I think so. I saw an islamic javelin case once, it was like a big cigar case (with a cap, rather then the sort of thing that flipped open from the side.) It held three of them.


Thank for the information and 3 javelins would probably be the practical maximum ? I tend to want " more numbers " when it comes to available missiles, but 6 might be to unwieldy. Eek!

With all history to look at, different cultures might or might not use quivers for javelins ? Oh, I think the ancient Egyptians had javelin quivers attached to the outside of their chariots.

Getting back to this specific javelin I've already e-mailed Craig about adding it to my customs order package that now has my custom Langue de Boeuf, the Iberian mace and the June special Nordland axe to be shipped as one package when the Langue de Boeuf is finished.

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Bob Burns




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PostPosted: Sat 09 Sep, 2006 12:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a really nice javelin, I have one and even though I live in a townhouse with a very small backyard I have found a way to enjoy mine. I set up targets inside my garage which is out front of my townhouse. This javelin is perfect in size and balance, I think anyone who buys them will enjoy them! By the way the A&A Viking axes aren't bad either, I bought two of those! Laughing Out Loud

Bob
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Michael R. Black




PostPosted: Sat 09 Sep, 2006 10:30 pm    Post subject: Throwing chord to help propel a javelin?         Reply with quote

I'm curious about the potential addition of a chord to assist in throwing. Does anyone know how this was done historically? (Mods, if this is in the wrong place, then please either PM me so I can start the question as a seprate thread, or kindly move the post for me).

Thanks,

Michael
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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: Amentum or Throwing loop         Reply with quote

HI Michael

You may add an amentum (Latin for strap) or throwing loop pretty easily. It can be as simple as a string with a loop for the finger wound around the shaft that when thrown causes the shaft to spin thus improving accuracy in the same way as a barrels rifling does for a bullet.

I will try to post some pics tomorrow to detail the process.

Best
Craig
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B. Stark
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2006 8:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I must say Craig, this is really cool. An item that just doesn't get enough attention. The widespread use of javelins leaves getting a kit together where this type of weapon was prevelant difficult. This changes all of that. Awesome.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A great addition, though I'd really like to see the later style barbed heads available head-only. Those intersted in darts/javelins should check out the discussion in the following thread. There's some good information about Irish darts on the first page and some very clear depictions of 15th c. darts at the bottom of the second page. Here's a link to that second page:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...p;start=20

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Chris Olsen




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PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 8:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They are really nice, I have played with them several times while visiting the shop both in their design phase and the final product and like them alot, (word of warning frequent trips to Arms and Armor can get you in lots of trouble with your wife). They are light enough that you could carry several at once and not be to over burdened (I carried 40 of them through the gates at Bristol to drop off at the booth there) and they really do fly nicely.

they make me wonder as i think some else said if they would work well in a thrower, like an atlatl (sp) or some such item..
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 10:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Olsen wrote:
they make me wonder as i think some else said if they would work well in a thrower, like an atlatl (sp) or some such item..


Or as a missile for a light siege engine. Eek! Cool

Strange how the atlalt was used in Europe in pre-historic ages but there seems to be no use of it in Ancient or Medieval times.

The last time Europeans came into contact with these seems to be the Conquistadors versus the Aztecs: Seems that they were impressed by the power of the atlalt.

Maybe the bow took over the longer range uses and javelins were good enough a close ranges and the atlalt was just forgotten about as I would have been a useful in between weapon.

I don't know that much about the history and geography of use of the atlalt so I may have some of this wrong. Question

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Atlatl

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Addison C. de Lisle




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PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

Or as a missile for a light siege engine. Eek! Cool


I like the way you think... Big Grin

I should mention these to the local Track team Laughing Out Loud

Really cool item, really cool price too; if I wasn't saving up for another Albion I'd probably snag a few.
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Steve Maly




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PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I saw these last weekend at the Minnesota Renaissance Festival in Shakopee, and was surprised and impressed with the tip. Well made as usual. Now I'll probably have to get a few...
"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." ~A. Maslow
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 8:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Addison C. de Lisle wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:

Or as a missile for a light siege engine. Eek! Cool


I like the way you think... Big Grin

I should mention these to the local Track team Laughing Out Loud



If you combine the javelin throw and the 100 yard dash in the same event it motivates the runners to run faster and no need for steroids to get below 10 seconds; There is the risk of running out of runners faster than running out of javelins though. Razz Evil Laughing Out Loud

Oh, my order is 100% official for one. Wink Might get a few more added to a package when I'm getting a future order delivered: Might as well combine stuff rather than have to wait for multiple deliveries. ( I hate the waiting and the compulsive checking of the package tracking every few minutes. )

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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2006 7:17 am    Post subject: Amentum use on Javelin         Reply with quote

Here you go Michael. I decided to use pictures for most of it as it will cover a lot of ground better than my descriptions could. Let me know if it does not make sense.

Start with a loop of leather or tight cord. Length will vary due to shaft size, hand size and throwing style. I would guess that something in the 15 to 18 inch range should work for just about everyone. A little bit of experimentation will help one get a comfortable length that works well for them.
















When doing a knot like this it is important to lock both ends of the thong into the knot or they will pull free


The Giant depicted here shows a period use, there are many examples on greek vases and such. The fingers seem very deep in the loop here, we have found that they hang up if that deep.

This set up can add a good deal of distance to your throw and improves accuracy. As in all things practice helps a great deal.

Also practice safe throwing as these can be quite impressive weapons when they hit there mark and we do not want anyone to get hurt.

Best
Craig
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Shane Allee
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2006 10:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice walk-through on the use of the amentum Craig.

I would guess that some of the depictions where it looks like the fingers are deeper in the loops of the amentum are probably examples where they were using ones that were not fixed to the shaft and would have been held during the throw. A good read on throwing javelins is "Throwing the Javelin" out of R. Norman Gardiner's book Athletics of the Ancient World. Steven Peffley was a huge help in getting me started throwing with the use of the amentum early this summer. I'll try to get some pics of the two types of amentae I've been using.

Shane
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2006 10:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One of my guys picked up several at Bristol for use at a Anglo-Saxon event we are doing. Nice pieces, lots of fun to play with.

Great price too!

" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
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