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Derek Estabrook




Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 6:47 am    Post subject: New Movie Pathfinder         Reply with quote

I just saw the preview for this movie. I had high hopes until I saw the trailer. It looks to be another piece of Hollywood crap demonizing the Norse people. It shows evil looking Norse raiders invading North America dressed in devilish looking horned helms trying to massacre the peaceful, loving Native American natives. Gods, the concept would make me sick if I didn't have Norse ancestry or study Native American and Scandinavian history. You're trying to tell me that several thousand Norse settlers set off with the goal of conquering a whole continent of millions of Native American people. Sure. I'll follow their example and round up a couple of vets at the bus station and take over Washington DC. The Norse people were warriors sure, don't take that away from them, but so were almost all examples of Native Americans. The Norse people historically were only conquerors when forced to be when settling (not talking about raids etc. which is more pleasure looting and along the same lines of Irish and Scottish clans raiding and stealing cattle from each other). Anytime I've seen where they were allowed to settle peacefully with the current inhabitants, they have and done very well at it. Its not rare, as they did it in pretty much the whole U.K., Ireland, Russia, Spain, don't make me go on, the list is a long one. The whole hippie image of Native American peoples gets me as well. Our European ancestors and the Native American people have a lot in common. The main differences come in the late 1400s when Europe has changed drastically. The Native American tribes and the old Norse have differences of course, but also quite a bit in common. The main conflict in all this is that most Native American tribes are not very peaceful and are very, very territorial and combative. So basically the scenario comes down to a kid asking another group of kids to share their legos since they have more than enough for both. The group of kids don't want to, arguments ensue the singular kid is strong so they fight but numbers prevail. The Norse get kicked off another settlement, much as what happened in Greenland with the Eskimos even though the Norse were there first. Nobody is making films about the evil eskimos though are they? I'm not trying to demonize Native American people. In fact, I love them, but you should see them first off in more detail than I'm providing as individual tribes and secondly without the rosy coloration. You can gild a flower, but can you appreciate its true beauty if its been altered? The fact is I know of only two truly peaceful non-combatant Native American tribes (Yes, I can reference if you ask) and they are so poor nobody wants what they have. Who is going to take over land where all you have is sand, scrub brush, and bugs to eat? So, in conclusion, you couldn't pay me to see the movie.

Heres is a link to the movies website if you so desire to see the trailer. But I warned you.
http://www.pathfinderthemovie.com/
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Chris Last




Location: Janesville, WI
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 7:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I saw the trailer too Derek. I think you echoed my settiments about the movie fairly accurately. In fact just ask my wife about the 30 minutes of head shaking and general sighs of disappointment.
" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
http://www.gsmbristol.org
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Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I saw the trailer for this one the other day. It looks to be on the same historic level as The Thirteenth Warrior. Historical fiction it certainly isn't.

Regarding the norse being peaceful settlers: Yes, there was much more to them as a culture than a simple band of rampaging raiders. However, in our new age way of viewing things, we've realized this and the pendulum has swung to the other extreme. Nearly every book newly published on the norse focuses heavily on their architecture, artwork and trading activities while nearly completely glossing over their warlike nature. Theirs was a warrior culture, the saying "God save us from the wrath of the northmen." didn't come about because they liked to show up and have a group hug. Peaceful settlement? I think we need to clarify the "peaceful" part of that. peaceful settlement at the point of a sword is quite different than "come on over and we'll have a party". The Irish certainly didn't appreciate them showing up, nor did the English, not to mention the skraelings of North America. I'm not demonizing the nordic cultures as they're one of my main periods of interest but we do need to take a balanced view on the subject. Everyone was violent and territorial back in the day, that's just the way it was. If you had it and I wanted it I'd take it, peacefully if it was to my advantage and violently if that worked better. Our modern morals really don't have bearing on ancient events.

That being said, I thought the movie might be an interesting fantasy piece until I saw the trailer. After viewing it I don't have high hopes for the production.
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Johan S. Moen




Location: Kristiansand, Norway
Joined: 26 Jan 2004

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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 8:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The movie is actually a Hollywood version of a Norwegian movie with the same name, though a lot older. The Norwegian one takes place in Northern Norway and shows the conflict between the Lapps and Tsjuder. Here it is on IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093668/ .

The Norwegian version, albeit old, is a very good one. The "new" one looks like total utter bollocks to me...

Johan Schubert Moen
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Thomas Beckett




Location: Kansas City, MO
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It looks like the director handed the costume designer a copy of "The Complete Works of Frank Frazzetta" and said "Make it look like this!" They should have just called it "Death Dealer: The Movie"!
"It's only funny until someone gets hurt... then it's hilarious!"
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Bryce Felperin




Location: San Jose, CA
Joined: 16 Feb 2006

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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas Beckett wrote:
They should have just called it "Death Dealer: The Movie"!


I like that! It really brings up all kinds of images to mind. :-)

The trailer sucked, the movie looks like a "wait for a boring day when nothing else is on the tube, its the middle of the day and you're already sick at home wanting to die and get it over with anyway so I might as well watch this trash" movie.
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 11:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My youngest son wants to see this movie and I intend to turn it into an educational experience. We'll undoubtedly have a , "What did you see wrong there." type of discussion as we often do after watching a movie like this.
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John Cooksey




Location: NW Ark
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 11:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas Beckett wrote:
It looks like the director handed the costume designer a copy of "The Complete Works of Frank Frazzetta" and said "Make it look like this!" They should have just called it "Death Dealer: The Movie"!


And that is the sole reason that I can't wait to see it! :-)

What I really want to know is why the Vikings in the preview artwork appear to be 8-10 feet tall . . . . . .
Those are some big ol' boys! :-)

Regarding why the Vikings would want to try to conquer a whole continent: you just have to ask yourself, "why not?" (grin)

I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
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Addison C. de Lisle




Location: South Carolina
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 12:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Somehow that trailer reminded me of Alien vs. Predator...must be the costumes
Big Grin
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Hisham Gaballa





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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 1:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I echo all the sentiments above the movie looks like a "Dungeons and Dragons" style fantasy, and probably would have been acceptable if it had stuck to that, my problem with it is that it is trying to pass itself off as history.

No comments on the "Norse" style sword I see...

Mind you after all the crap and innaccurate historical movies we have subjected to over the decades, I don't know why I was expecting anything different.

On another note, Karl Urban doesn't seem to mind getting typecast either.
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Mikko Kuusirati




Location: Finland
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 1:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas Beckett wrote:
It looks like the director handed the costume designer a copy of "The Complete Works of Frank Frazzetta" and said "Make it look like this!" They should have just called it "Death Dealer: The Movie"!

Aaaaaaaand now I'll simply have to go and see it, despite myself, damn your hide... Big Grin

The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well if we could re-do the sound in a movie like this and dub in " MORLOCKS " each time we hear " Viking " and dub in
" ELOIS " for native Americans maybe it might still be semi-enjoyable if the characters are interesting and the actors and story
are halfway decent.

I would guess one would have to ignore the P.C. moralizing to get any pleasure out of it.

Basically this is how I sort of enjoyed the 13th Warrior about half an hour in when it seemed that historical accuracy wasn't going to happen anytime before the rolling of the film credits. WTF?! Laughing Out Loud

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One of the actors names is Moon Bloodgood
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Malcolm A




Location: Scotland, UK
Joined: 22 Mar 2005

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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 2:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Today took from the sublime to the ridiculous...

[a] The sublime
I looked today at the forum thread on Patrick K's new Svante sword.
Based on historic example
Recreated by people who obviously belive in detail and workmanship and pride-in-thier efforts
Sold to a person who appreciates all this and will use the sword responsibly, respect it and look after it

[b] The ridiculous
Then I looked at the film trailer and sighed....
It almost makes "13th Warrior" look realistic
Its not based on history
The people who made it have no regard for realism
And its loosed on us next year
I sighed again....
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Jesse Zinn




Location: NC (USA)
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 2:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
I saw the trailer for this one the other day. It looks to be on the same historic level as The Thirteenth Warrior. Historical fiction it certainly isn't.


Unfortunately, Patrick, I fear you unjustly lower The Thirteenth Warrior by associating it with this forthcoming film. Wink It's not historical fiction, sure, but as has been discussed ad infinitum elsewhere, The Thirteenth Warrior was only a cinematic adaptation of Michael Crichton's Eaters of the Dead - a purely fantastic, though original and enjoyable IMHO, retelling of the Beowulf tale. But...your point is taken... Wink

As to The Pathfinder, I'm in agreement with much of you gentlemen. This looks like unwarranted garbage that I believe I shall pass on. It might make for a decent story and movie, insofar as that goes, but I'm too annoyed with the premise to give it a chance. The cinematography and film print composition (more of that Spielberg"esque" print desaturation?) look interesting, and I do like the fantastic imagery of the "barbarians," but I think I'd rather rewatch The Thirteenth Warrior once again, than waste my time with this tripe. But, who knows...

Cheers. Thanks for the post, Derek,
-Jess

Jesse D. Zinn
North Carolina

Hwt w Gr-Dena in ger-dagum
od-cyninga rym gefrnon,
h elingas ellen fremedon."


Last edited by Jesse Zinn on Fri 18 Aug, 2006 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mikko Kuusirati




Location: Finland
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 3:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For what it's worth, I absolutely love The 13th Warrior. The props and costumes are... wonky... and the way Banderas treats that sword is unforgiveable, but I thought it managed the spirit of the thing admirably. That scene before the final fight, with ibn Fahdlan's private and the Northmen's collective prayers, just chokes me up every time. And so does Buliwyf's death (Vladimir Kulich has an incredible screen presence). Besides...

"I am not a warrior!"
"Very soon you will be."

A great movie. Not great history, but a great movie. Big Grin

The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Talk about coincidences. I just walked in the door from the gym and what is my son watching? The 13th Warrior!

BTW, I love that little prayer Antonio Banderas gives as he kneels in the mud just before the last battle. That's a serious man-moment with style. Big Grin If your time is up either go like that or shut up and die like a man.

Thanks for the kind comparison Malcom.
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Taylor Ellis




PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug, 2006 5:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maybe the marketing people got it wrong and it's actually about Picts and Vanir raiders... yeah I''ll go with that... Big Grin
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Carl Goff




Location: Florida
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PostPosted: Sat 19 Aug, 2006 12:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Taylor Ellis wrote:
Maybe the marketing people got it wrong and it's actually about Picts and Vanir raiders... yeah I''ll go with that... Big Grin


*snort* That ridiculous armor would certainly be more appropriate for a bad film on Howard's Hyborian Age.

Oh, East of sands and sunlit gulf, your blood is thin, your gods are few;
You could not break the Northern wolf and now the wolf has turned on you.
The fires that light the coasts of Spain fling shadows on the Eastern strand.
Master, your slave has come again with torch and axe in his right hand!
-Robert E. Howard
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Michal Plezia
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PostPosted: Sat 19 Aug, 2006 1:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They are not Vikings! They are championes of Khorne from Warhammer!!!! Laughing Out Loud
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Polish Guild of Knifemakers

The sword is a weapon for killing, the art of the sword is the art of killing. No matter what fancy words you use or what titles you put to
it that is the only truth.
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