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Howard Waddell
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 6:06 am    Post subject: Meister Grossemesser Update         Reply with quote

The gang has completed the first prototype of the Meister Grossemesser. This is one @!#&^ nasty lethal little sword.

This version does not have the fullering on the grip, guard and pommel. We decided to go with a simpler configuration first, as these things are very hard to put together under ideal circumstances, so reducing the variables helped in working out the initial details.

We are so pleased with this that we may offer this simpler version as well.



When Peter comes in early September, we will be working out the details of the fullering of the hilt components and make the second prototype with those elements in place.

And yes (I have already gotten requests before we have shown this publicly) this first prototype is available for sale for $950 plus shipping (a little bit of Albion history) on a first request basis. Email quest@albionarmorers.com if you are interested. The sword will not be shipped to you until after Peter has seen it in early September.

Specifications
Overall length: 29.5" (75 cm)
Blade length: 24.25" (62 cm)
Blade width (base): 1.75" (4.45 cm)
Blkade width (flare): 2" (5 cm)
CoB: 4" (10 cm)
CoP: 15.75" (40 cm)
2 lbs 1.6 oz (955 grams)

More photos here:

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...photos.htm

Best,

Howy

Albion Swords Ltd
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Kenneth Enroth




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 6:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like a kitchen knife. Big Grin Maybe I'll buy one for mom.
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Alexander Hinman




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 7:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd certainly go after it. The Meister as it is seems a tad expensive for me.

Absolutely beautiful weapon. I love how the tip turned out, and the side ring is much more subtly attractive than I had originally envisioned.

Great job, Howard.
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It has a great clean simple, but well-designed look.
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Christian Henry Tobler
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 7:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's really looking great, Howy!

I'm going to definitely be in the market for a messer one of these days soon, so I'm keeping an eye out as developments unfold.

All the best,

Christian

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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 7:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Howy, that's one of the most intriguing things you've come up with yet.
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Jason Elrod




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Absolutely fantastic. Are you guys going to be able to place the lug on the opposite side for us left handed individuals out there?
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Howard Waddell
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason Elrod wrote:
Absolutely fantastic. Are you guys going to be able to place the lug on the opposite side for us left handed individuals out there?


As far as I know, that should not be a problem.

Best,

Howy

Albion Swords Ltd
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http://filmswords.com
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Derek Wassom




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eek! I'm in love already. Good work guys.
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Nate C.




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 9:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You know, it's weird but that one just doesn't quite do it for me. It's obviously well made and designed (although I think the hilt fullering will add a lot to the aesthetics) I just don't care for it as much as its big brother. I think the clipped point has something to do with it. Two questions though; is there any color/wood choice on the two messers and how is the pommel attached?

Cheers,

Nate C.

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Jason Dingledine
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 10:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nate C. wrote:
You know, it's weird but that one just doesn't quite do it for me. It's obviously well made and designed (although I think the hilt fullering will add a lot to the aesthetics) I just don't care for it as much as its big brother. I think the clipped point has something to do with it. Two questions though; is there any color/wood choice on the two messers and how is the pommel attached?

Cheers,


Peter, Howy, or Eric will have to answer the wood question, but the pommel is flush peened just like the rest of the NG line. The shouldering of the tang and rivet shank are such that the seam is very slight.

Hope this helps.

Jason Dingledine
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Alex Oster




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 12:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I liked it before the pic had even finished loading Wink However, I agree with the kitchen knife look. Its always bothered me about them. Not that its a bad thing; Its just not me.

Might I ask, why the side lug? I don't think I've quite seen one as such before.

Keep up the good work!

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 1:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd like to know what kind of kitchens you folks are working in? Eek!

Hell's Kitchen, maybe? Big Grin

I'm very fond of riveted scale construction.To me, these weapons are all-business and incredibly attractive in their brutal simplicity. The lug, by the way, is intended to prevent an opposing blade from sliding down your own blade and removing your fingers.

-Sean

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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If that's a kitchen knife I'm going to culinary school!
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think that's fantastic. The fullering in the pommel and grip will be nice, but I don't believe the piece suffers in any way without it. The use of tubular rivets (as they appear to be, to me) is an excellent suprise as well. I'm curious as to what type of wood that is.
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Randall Pleasant




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Meister Grossemesser Update         Reply with quote

Very very nice!

Do you think the fullering or non-fullering of the grips will have an impact on its handling?

Well I see Nathan opinion. Big Grin
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Alex Oster




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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
to prevent an opposing blade from sliding down your own blade and removing your fingers.


Interesting thought, but I would have had it on both sides and turned the other way maybe? Confused

I think the sterile black on stainless, and again with the tubular rivets, is what charms me. I'll have to dig up the fullered pics to get an idea of what was not done yet... Cool

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
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Christian Henry Tobler
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 2:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Nagel ('nail') or lug on a messer does afford some protection for the fingers, but it's also made to facilitate hooking of the opponent's weapon and moving it aside.

All the best,

Christian

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Jason Dingledine
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alex Oster wrote:

Might I ask, why the side lug? I don't think I've quite seen one as such before.



In addition to the other comments that have been made about the lug, it is also part of what locks the guard into place. This sword type doesn't have the traditional shoulder seating of what we think of on swords, but the slot for tang & blade extend through the guard. This is so that the blade may be seated over the tang swell near the pommel.

This can be seen easily in this photo:


The front edge of the tang and blade shoulders can be seen meeting both the guard and pommel. The lug is then also a rivet and cross-pinned through the blade, then hot-peened and flushed/blended with the face of the guard.

Nathan:

The slabs on this model are black walnut. I'm not sure if other woods will be an option, but this is what Peter and Eric decided on.

PS, yes those are tubular rivets in the slabs......... Wink

Jason Dingledine
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Aug, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey guys!

Glad to hear there are some out there who appreciate this little murderous blade.

It does indeed look a bit like a kitchen knife. That is no mystery since our modern kitchen knives have evolved from medieval designs like this. This weapon is called messer (=knife) for a reason...

It is a bit more involved than first meets the eye (but if you look closely you might guess what goes into the making of one).
You would think that a weapon that has humble origins would be simpler and more economical to make than a kighly sword.
That might have been the case in medieval times when labour and materials were valued in other ways than today.
Another difference is that modern people do not accept the same standards of finish as did our medieval counterparts.
The messers I have seen have all made with varying degrees of precision or lack thereof. Many seems to have come together rather quickly with little thought of anything else than the bare basics, while other are quite neat and fine.

The design of the messer, its method of construction, is such that you actually see how all parts come together. No seam is hidden by another part or layer of material. This puts very high demands on the blade grinder and the cutler. A sword hilt is actually much easier and forgiving to put together.
The Meister and the Knecht are both built on the same construction principles as their historical couterparts: the pommel, guard and grip are mounted exactly the same way as on original peices. The fit and finish would represent a very high quality level in historical times.

The seemingly "simple" curved, single edged blade of the messer is actually much more complex than the symmetrical double edged sword.

All this suggests we look at these humble weapons with fresh eyes and leave preconceptions behind.
They are not crude, but pretty complex in their "simple" design.

I am very much looking forward to hearing reactions from customers when they get to experience first hand this one and the other messers that are following.
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