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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Jul, 2006 12:10 pm    Post subject: Hollywood Armourers         Reply with quote

I ran across this piece the other night that was supposedly used in the film Ben Hur. I don't know which version (the early or late) and there is no other information about it. Someone put some love into its creation.

http://dns.websitemanagement.net/clients/404/1274_photo1.jpg

I sometimes wonder about other film swords of the past. I know Osacar Kolombatovtich was involved with a couple of more recent (my lifetime) films and there is always some interest in more recent projects.

Does/has anyone gone to the lengths of filing some of the names from the past. Those who armed folk Errol and Victor? There were some good looking efforts in the days gone by, functional or not. Even the rapiers in the old Cyrano film looked good.

Cheers

GC
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sat 29 Jul, 2006 6:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Back in Hollywoods golden era most of the props were made in-house. Under the studio system each studio had pretty massive prop departments so I doubt if much was made by private contractors like we see today.
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Ken Rankin




Location: North Carolina
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Jul, 2006 7:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just a little aside to that, mentioning Erroyl Flynn, the swords in The Adventures of Robin Hood were made of aluminum, and I doubt many survive to this day. All the arrow shots were real, however. All the arrow stunts were performed by Howard Hill, including the shot where Robin's arrow splits another in twain, done in one shot. One of the best movies ever.

Ken
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sat 29 Jul, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ken Rankin wrote:
Just a little aside to that, mentioning Erroyl Flynn, the swords in The Adventures of Robin Hood were made of aluminum, and I doubt many survive to this day. All the arrow shots were real, however. All the arrow stunts were performed by Howard Hill, including the shot where Robin's arrow splits another in twain, done in one shot. One of the best movies ever.

Ken


Thank goodness they didn't go with Jimmy Cagney in the role as originally planned!
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Ken Rankin




Location: North Carolina
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Jul, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It would have made the film a hard watch Big Grin maybe he would have stolen Trigger from Maid Marian Big Grin I have to pull out the DVD now!

Ken
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sun 30 Jul, 2006 3:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Thank goodness they didn't go with Jimmy Cagney in the role as originally planned!
I feel that Cagney was a good actor ... but ... as Robin Hood??? I'm glad they didn't cast him.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 30 Jul, 2006 6:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ken Rankin wrote:
It would have made the film a hard watch Big Grin maybe he would have stolen Trigger from Maid Marian Big Grin I have to pull out the DVD now!

Ken


Not sure if i get the Trigger reference ? Are you confusing James Cagney with Roy Rogers ? He is the one whose's horse was called Trigger. Just curious ???

James Cagney or Humphrey Bogard are great actors but one just can't see certain actors in some parts.

Kevin Kosner was great and credible in " Dancing with Wolves " As Robin Hood it just didn't work and wouldn't have worked even with the best script in the world.

Oh, Sean Connery was great as an aging Robin Hood in Robin and Marian: Some actors can do modern and can do period stuff.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Ken Rankin




Location: North Carolina
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PostPosted: Sun 30 Jul, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No confusion Jean Big Grin according to the IMDB trivia for The Adventures of Robin Hood the horse that Maid Marion rides in the film was purchased by Roy Rogers from a stable that leased animals for films. He became Trigger the Wonder Horse. Apparently even horses back then were contract players Big Grin

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0029843/trivia

Ken
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
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PostPosted: Sun 30 Jul, 2006 12:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting responses.

What caught my eye on the sword linked was what looks like a fairly well done grip and pommel, married to the rest of the quite whimsical …umm, mess.

Cheers

GC
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 30 Jul, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ken Rankin wrote:
No confusion Jean Big Grin according to the IMDB trivia for The Adventures of Robin Hood the horse that Maid Marion rides in the film was purchased by Roy Rogers from a stable that leased animals for films. He became Trigger the Wonder Horse. Apparently even horses back then were contract players Big Grin

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0029843/trivia

Ken


Thanks, NOW, I get it: Didn't know it was the same horse. Eek! Laughing Out Loud I think he, the horse, not Roy Rogers is on display and stuffed at the Roy Rogers Museum. ( But then I could be wrong or insufficiently informed again. Wink Big Grin )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Bruno Giordan





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PostPosted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 8:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Ken Rankin wrote:
It would have made the film a hard watch Big Grin maybe he would have stolen Trigger from Maid Marian Big Grin I have to pull out the DVD now!

Ken


Not sure if i get the Trigger reference ? Are you confusing James Cagney with Roy Rogers ? He is the one whose's horse was called Trigger. Just curious ???

James Cagney or Humphrey Bogard are great actors but one just can't see certain actors in some parts.

Kevin Kosner was great and credible in " Dancing with Wolves " As Robin Hood it just didn't work and wouldn't have worked even with the best script in the world.

Oh, Sean Connery was great as an aging Robin Hood in Robin and Marian: Some actors can do modern and can do period stuff.


The story of Robin Hood is the story of a seduction, tteh good young knight against an old evil tyrant, here representeed by an usurper: it is a avriant of the popular theme of the yound aspiring to the hand of the princess, that is rejected by the father of the princess for some motivations.

So the actor interpreting Robin must be a young amoroso,a word of the italian Coomedia dell'arte meaning lover.

A seductor but also a beautiful man. Bogart looked rather like a Mafia accountant ...

[/i]
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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 7:53 pm    Post subject: Ben Hur         Reply with quote

I once met a director who had a sword on his wall that looked like it was hacked out of the worst shop in the world. He was given the sword a long time ago and it was said to have been used in the original silent version of Ben Hur. It was a real boat anchor but cool as it was used by the actors of that day. The piece pictured above is far to nice to have been used in that production. I do not remeber ever seeing something like that in the Charelto Heston version. Maybe though,, time to pull out the DVD.

As for Robin Hood, now out on DVD, and yes I mean the Errol Flynn RH as if there are any other, its the reason I sit in a corner of my bedroom and type like a fiend about swords and then get up in the mornig and make them :-) Bloody afternoon movies when I was a kid swashbuckler week with Mel Jass . Damn the fool. WTF?!


Keep well marry men!

Craig Laughing Out Loud
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 8:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
As for Robin Hood, now out on DVD, and yes I mean the Errol Flynn RH as if there are any other, its the reason I sit in a corner of my bedroom and type like a fiend about swords and then get up in the mornig and make them :-) Bloody afternoon movies when I was a kid swashbuckler week with Mel Jass . Damn the fool.


I'm glad I'm not the only one. Big Grin
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Aug, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Craig wrote:
As for Robin Hood, now out on DVD, and yes I mean the Errol Flynn RH as if there are any other, its the reason I sit in a corner of my bedroom and type like a fiend about swords and then get up in the mornig and make them :-) Bloody afternoon movies when I was a kid swashbuckler week with Mel Jass . Damn the fool.


I'm glad I'm not the only one. Big Grin


Me too Errol Flynn was one of my favourite actors when I was a kid as well as Charlton Heston and Jack Hawkins ( great voice ) I loved " Land of the Pharaohs " (1955 ) with a very young Joan Collins as his Queen.
http://www.britishpictures.com/stars/Hawkins.htm

A lot of other films and old T.V. shows can also take the blame:

Robin Hood with Richard Green.
Ivanhoe with a very young pre " The Saint " Roger Moore.
A series entitled " The Vikings " dubbed in French I think.
A series about William Tell: Also dubbed in French that I never saw the original.
Thierry La Fronde: A French ( France ) series about a Robin Hood type hero armed with a sling during the 100 Years war.
Thibault et les Croisades: A French series set in Outre-Mer after the first Crusade about a French Knight of mixed Frankish Arab ancestry.

And a whole bunch of French and American made period films that were shown on French T.V. in Québec from 1950 to the middle of the sixties: We used to get all the old classics of the 1930's to 1950's on T.V. in those days: Made University film History courses mostly re-seeing old favourites. ( And easy to pass. Razz Wink

Must have seen a lot of film swords, good and bad. Razz Wink

( Edited: One thing I remember is not liking the swords used in the Richard Green version of Robin Hood: Although the swords used basic crossguards the blades were very narrow ! An inch wide at most and maybe less. The sword work was more stage Rapier style than broad sword. My memory could be faulty but even at 8 years old I remember thinking that the swords just were not " period " types and were unsatisfying. Razz Laughing Out Loud ) Oh, there are now DVDs available at my DVD place of this series. )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Aug, 2006 5:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The dealer listing for the sword pictured in my first post is inconclusive. It is simply listed as a theatrical sword used in the movie Ben Hur. Thanks, Craig, for affirming it was not likely used in the silent version.

Sunday night Disney during the late '50s was my first and limited exposure to action adventure movies. They ran movies such as Robin Hood over the course of a couple of weeks. My mother was one for a very classical education and upbringing, so there was a good dose of Shakespeare stage and film productions as well. Television was more or less forbidden in our house, so I had to rely on neighbors and fraternity lounges nearby (I pretty much grew up on college campuses).

Cheers

GC
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Ken Rankin




Location: North Carolina
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Aug, 2006 8:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anyone fans of 'Robin of Sherwood', the British series from the '80s? Clannad did the title song, and most of the soundtrack I believe, great show.

Ken
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