Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Eftis: 1300 inlaid Knights sword and 950ad viking sword Help Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Richard V Connell





Joined: 31 May 2006
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 8:03 pm    Post subject: Eftis: 1300 inlaid Knights sword and 950ad viking sword Help         Reply with quote

I need some serious advice. I had purchased one sword "a Inlaid knights sword 1300 a.d. on ebay" and I am in the process of purchasing a viking era sword from the same source( in transit) (Eftis) . The famous last words" I am new to collecting". lol Sad

I bought the books , did some research and I am finding that I may be getting scammed by a englishman by the name of Eftis, who I was lead to beleive owns a museum in England.

Buyer beware I guess. Any adivce on purchasing real antique swords. What can I do now to validate my current purchases. I did receive a cert. of authenticy, however, its only as good as the paper its on.

If I find I truely got scammed on these items, I will take that as as sign to find another hobby. I have such as great love and respect for ancient swords. I am not off to a good start.

Again Any Advice Please Happy

Rick
View user's profile Send private message
Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 8:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

post the pics and the certificate so we can see etc. and any research material the seller or you have aquired about such swords.


dont give up.
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Richard V Connell





Joined: 31 May 2006
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 8:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks , Here are the links for the two swords;


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem...RK:MEWA:IT



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem...RK:MEWA:IT



tks again
Rick
View user's profile Send private message
Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional



Location: Storvreta, Sweden
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,757

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 12:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Without seeing antique swords first hand it can be difficult to get a good idea of their authenticity.
Latlely it sems there has been a flooding of "authentic" and "important" swords on the market.
I am not at all sure all of those are what they are made out to be.
Without seeing the swords first hand it can be difficult to know for certain, however.

Before one start buying antiques over the internet, I think it would be a good idea to spend time and money to visit museums to carefully study orginals. After having spent time with these, it will be somewhat easier to pick the odd stuff out even on photos.

I cannot say anything definite about the swords you posted before having seen them in person.
I am also not sure about the rules (laws) regarding comments on auktions on the internet?


Last edited by Peter Johnsson on Fri 30 Jun, 2006 1:55 am; edited 2 times in total
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Arne Focke
Industry Professional



Location: near Munich, Germany
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Reading list: 34 books

Posts: 204

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 1:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is almost impossible to judge the authenticity of a piece just by a photo. On these pictures they look quite real, but of course pictures lie sometimes.
What gives you the impression of being scammed?
It is not easy to judge the authenticity of a sword even when seeing it first hand, since there is no way yet to date steel. I know of some colleagues of mine who are working on carbon-based method of dating steel, but they are still experimenting.
So my advice would be to visit the nearest archaeological institut and aks them for advice. At least they should be able to refer you to their closest colleage who has specialised himself on that subject.

So schön und inhaltsreich der Beruf eines Archäologen ist, so hart ist auch seine Arbeit, die keinen Achtstundentag kennt! (Wolfgang Kimmig in: Die Heuneburg an der oberen Donau, Stuttgart 1983)
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 1:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mr. Connell, please let us know where you are located so that can possibly direct you to a facility that hopefully provide assistance.
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 4:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the seller states:
Quote:
All items offered for purchase are guaranteed to be ancient / antique as described. Buyers receive a written guarantee from our Private Museum at no extra cost and can count on a 100% money back guarantee of authenticity.

Ancient Artefacts (our advice to all eBay users):

Whether you buy your antiquities from us or other ebay sellers we strongly recommend that you show all your purchases to your nearest reputable state museum for authentication and peace of mind. Unfortunately the ancient art market is cursed with a high proportion of fakes. Fakes often look better than real antiquities to the inexperienced eye - they are often intact, invariably unrestored and their colours are more vivid. Our buyers can count on a 100% money back guarantee if a state museum judges their purchase to be non-ancient. Seek the same re-assurance from all those who sell to you.


so take him up on the offer and get it checked out.

seller feedback:
Feedback Score: 3711
Positive Feedback: 99.5%
Members who left a positive: 3729
Members who left a negative: 19
All positive feedback received: 7708

thats a lot of good for the small bad. hmmmmm
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Richard V Connell





Joined: 31 May 2006
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 5:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for all your advice. Happy I will take the items in for closer inspection by a professional.

tks Rick
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 6:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Richard V Connell wrote:
Thanks for all your advice. Happy I will take the items in for closer inspection by a professional.

tks Rick


Richard,

Another thing to do, assuming you have some experience handling swords (which I take it you may not) is to try handling the swords yourself, so long as they're not about to fall apart on you. Try cutting with them, though not at full speed- how does it feel? There should be a noticeable blade presence in both swords, which means that you can feel some of the mass of the weapon during a cut. However, most of the mass should feel as though it's concentrated in the hilt section of your sword. When you do cut, despite this blade presence, the blade should move fairly easily in the air. It should not feel like you require a lot of strength to keep the cut going- be especially wary if it feels like the blade part of the sword is heavy, awkward and poorly balanced.

My descriptors are very much a subjective thing, and it's difficult if not impossible to describe how a sword should "feel" with words alone. Therefore, I would also suggest that you enquire at which auction house your swords were purchased, and then contact them as well. Hopefully, they'll be able to help confirm the authenticity of your weapons.
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 6:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just a followup- if you do try cutting with these swords, make sure you are extremely careful. Only attempt a cut if you're sure that the blade and hilt have enough structural integrity to handle it. Don't cut any objects; rather, simply try cutting through the air. I wouldn't want you to potentially irreparably damage an antique sword in your quest to find out whether it is authentic or not.
View user's profile Send private message
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional




Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Posts: 2,607

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 7:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eftis again.

A few thoughts

1) Research can be done on Eftis on the internet.

2) Eftis consistently and almost constantly has a seemingly endless supply of very well preserved swords available at (relatively) modest prices. These swords range from the migration era to the 15th century but all seem to be in about the same state of preservation. Interestingly none of these swords appear to have ever been documented previously to my knowledge.

3) Eftis has a great ebay reputation... yet most of the auctions I've seen appear to not show the names of the winning bidder...

4)There are many reputable sellers available online and elsewhere.

5) If a buyer does not have the expertise to tell an ancient sword from a reproduction with a photograph perhaps they should not be spending thousands of dollars based upon a photograph and a claim of authenticity.

6)Most people that are experts would never try to make a determination based exclusively on a photograph.

I have attempted to put these few small thoughts together keeping myArmoury's reputation and liabiltiy issues in mind. If I have overstepped any bounds I have every confidence the moderators will act accordingly. Overstepping bounds was not my intent.

TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
View user's profile Send private message
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Cincinnati, OH
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 21 pages
Reading list: 231 books

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 9,135

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 7:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:


3) Eftis has a great ebay reputation... yet most of the auctions I've seen appear to not show the names of the winning bidder...



This means little or nothing. The seller has made the auction private to protect the names of the buyers. I've bought several items (from other sellers) that have been private auctions and all have been on the up-and-up. See here.

Let's not create conspiracy theories unnecessarily.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional




Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Posts: 2,607

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 7:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:

Before one start buying antiques over the internet, I think it would be a good idea to spend time and money to visit museums to carefully study orginals. After having spent time with these, it will be somewhat easier to pick the odd stuff out even on photos.


I think this is very sound advice as well. Before one put's ones money on the table one should be willing to risk that money on their knowledge. In order to have that knowledge one must study original pieces. One must know what an original piece looks like. How an original piece feels, methods of construction extant at the time the piece supposedly comes from and more broadly one must have an understanding of period constext, art, thought, belief etc. I once posted some pictures here of a trident main gauche supposedly an original. However, it was quickly pointed out that not only was it a badly cobbled together amalgamation of parts but that the carved ivory handle was from a carving set. How did the gentleman who made this identification know that? Well first he looked at the construction. Inconsistencies in the fit and finish were broad clues to him. Then he looked at the materials, he had a broader contextual knowledge of cutlery and weapons and immediately recognized the grip for what it was... the modified grip of a carving knife. He had seen many main gauches and he had seen many carving knives. Thanks Peter, I learned a little from that post. Happy

TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
View user's profile Send private message
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional




Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Posts: 2,607

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 8:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Russ Ellis wrote:


3) Eftis has a great ebay reputation... yet most of the auctions I've seen appear to not show the names of the winning bidder...



This means little or nothing. The seller has made the auction private to protect the names of the buyers. I've bought several items (from other sellers) that have been private auctions and all have been on the up-and-up. See here.

Let's not create conspiracy theories unnecessarily.


While I agree that a private auction is not necessarily a sure sign of poor intent it is a warning sign and one that should be heeded. A private auction makes schill bidding all to easy and it is all to common in many blade categories. I am glad your experiences with them were positive. Others have not been so fortunate.

TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards


Last edited by Russ Ellis on Fri 30 Jun, 2006 8:09 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional




Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Posts: 2,607

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:

Richard,

Another thing to do, assuming you have some experience handling swords (which I take it you may not) is to try handling the swords yourself, so long as they're not about to fall apart on you. Try cutting with them, though not at full speed- how does it feel? There should be a noticeable blade presence in both swords, which means that you can feel some of the mass of the weapon during a cut. However, most of the mass should feel as though it's concentrated in the hilt section of your sword. When you do cut, despite this blade presence, the blade should move fairly easily in the air. It should not feel like you require a lot of strength to keep the cut going- be especially wary if it feels like the blade part of the sword is heavy, awkward and poorly balanced.

My descriptors are very much a subjective thing, and it's difficult if not impossible to describe how a sword should "feel" with words alone. Therefore, I would also suggest that you enquire at which auction house your swords were purchased, and then contact them as well. Hopefully, they'll be able to help confirm the authenticity of your weapons.


This also assumes that all antiques are balanced "properly." I would submit that there are probably poorly balanced antiques.

TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
This also assumes that all antiques are balanced "properly." I would submit that there are probably poorly balanced antiques.


True, but from what I've heard, especially those with far mroe experience at handling antiques such as John Clements, those antiques that are improperly balanced seem to be fairly few and far between.
View user's profile Send private message
Rod Parsons




Location: UK
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Reading list: 11 books

Posts: 154

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 5:24 pm    Post subject: Paper trail?         Reply with quote

Since both of these items are described as being from old European collections then there should be some kind of papertrail of documentation, however short, that can be independently traced and verified.
And did you confirm and check the sellers name and address before parting with your money?
If the seller is unwilling to provide this information and have it checked then I would take that as a definite warning sign. The inlay on both swords is alike to a remarkable degree in colour, brightness and definition which would tend to lead me to an intuitive conclusion. The patina is also remarkably consistent.
Rod.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Kenton Spaulding




Location: Connecticut
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Reading list: 12 books

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Certainly I am not an authority on judging true artifacts from forgeries; however, I will say that to my amateur eyes, the pieces I have seen from this seller in the past seem to consistently present new and or unusual engravings and inlays, which often don't look quite like the engravings/inlays which I have seen in my modest studies (mostly just my Oakeshott books). Of course there are engravings and inlays outside the run of the mill Xs and crosses that I have never, or perhaps that no living person has ever seen before just waiting to be discovered. The inlay on the 13th century sword really look out of place to me, almost like a more recent addition to the sword. Would it even be possible to add inlays to an old and corroded sword? I am far from saying that these two swords aren't real, however in my own mind I look at them somewhat wearily. If somebody that I consider an expert like Peter Johnsson doesn't look at them and automatically declare them "real" or "fake" then I sure as heck am not about to Confused

One more note, I would agree with Russ that all (disclaimer: all which I have seen, not necessarily all that this seller has listed in the past) of this sellers swords seem to be in a very similar state of preservation.

That said, assuming this seller honors his word, which I have no reason to believe that he will not, you will have ample time to get the swords checked out and verified.

Hope things work out for you,

Kenton
View user's profile Send private message
J. Bedell




Location: Maryland, USA
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 6:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I dont know anything about the authenticity of these weapons but if you have them inspected by a pro and they are not authentic historic pieces return them. If the seller won't give your money back then contact ebay directly. Ebay guarantees all sales and in my experience is great at enforcing their rules (which includes making sure the sellers are honest and keep to promises they make on the auction page).


-James

The pen may be mighter, but the sword is much more fun.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 6:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rule 1. Do your research

No one can ever stress that enough. There is currently some guy selling a ton of stuff on e-bay under the guise that the items are from a freinds stash of old film props. The truth seems to be that this guy finds stuff that sort of looks like it could be be from the film and then sells it as such. All of it second hand store garbage, and most not even close to the original prop.... yet it sells... Worried

You can never be 100% certain, but you can take out 80% of your doubt if you research before jumping in with both feet.

Congratulations on your swords though, both I thought were great looking and would have been happy to have!
I hope the end of the story is a happy one. Happy

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
My collection: Various Blades & Conan related
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Eftis: 1300 inlaid Knights sword and 950ad viking sword Help
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum