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David McElrea




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PostPosted: Fri 26 Dec, 2003 5:53 pm    Post subject: Albion Armorer's "The Baron"         Reply with quote

This is a question for the guys at Albion.

I'm curious about the pommel on the Baron-- I am thinking it is a Type J pommel, but am unclear on the precise shape. In the sketch it looks like the face rises from the "sides" of the pommel in a concave manner, whereas in the wax designs the incline appears to be convex. Could you tell me which (convex or concave)? And is there any chance (if this isn't asking too much) of seeing a photo of the pommel in profile?

One last question-- was the pommel loosely based on that of the XIIIA sword found in the River Thames, opposite the Temple (Records of the Medieval Sword: Oakeshott, page 99)?

I have to say the philosophy and end result of your work is fantastic-- I look forward to seeing more (up close)!

Cheers,

David
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Jason Dingledine
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Dec, 2003 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Albion Armorer's "The Baron"         Reply with quote

David McElrea wrote:
This is a question for the guys at Albion.

I'm curious about the pommel on the Baron-- I am thinking it is a Type J pommel, but am unclear on the precise shape. In the sketch it looks like the face rises from the "sides" of the pommel in a concave manner, whereas in the wax designs the incline appears to be convex. Could you tell me which (convex or concave)? And is there any chance (if this isn't asking too much) of seeing a photo of the pommel in profile?

One last question-- was the pommel loosely based on that of the XIIIA sword found in the River Thames, opposite the Temple (Records of the Medieval Sword: Oakeshott, page 99)?

I have to say the philosophy and end result of your work is fantastic-- I look forward to seeing more (up close)!

Cheers,

David


Hi David,

It is a Type J pommel that has a slight taper in thickness from the grip side to the peen end. So it is a concave bevel to the raise center boss. As to the specific sword it was based on, we'll have to wait for Peter's response, as I not precisely sure.

I'll mention this to Howy, and see if Leif has taken any side view pics of the fittings. Won't be able to do much until Monday though, unless Howy has them already and can download them.

If you have any other questions, we'll try to answer them as best we can.

Jason Dingledine
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Brian M




Location: Austin, TX
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Dec, 2003 10:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason--While we are on the subject of pommels, is the "Knight" pommel an I or J? Hard to tell in the concept sketch.

David--I believe Mr. Johnsson posted a picture of the original inspiration for the Baron. I can't remember if it's under this thread or another, though.
Brian M
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Dec, 2003 11:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Albion Armorer's "The Baron"         Reply with quote

David McElrea wrote:
This is a question for the guys at Albion.

I'm curious about the pommel on the Baron-- I am thinking it is a Type J pommel, but am unclear on the precise shape. In the sketch it looks like the face rises from the "sides" of the pommel in a concave manner, whereas in the wax designs the incline appears to be convex. Could you tell me which (convex or concave)? And is there any chance (if this isn't asking too much) of seeing a photo of the pommel in profile?

One last question-- was the pommel loosely based on that of the XIIIA sword found in the River Thames, opposite the Temple (Records of the Medieval Sword: Oakeshott, page 99)?

I have to say the philosophy and end result of your work is fantastic-- I look forward to seeing more (up close)!

Cheers,

David


The pommel is of type J (or perhaps bordering to type K) It is wide and slightly oval with concave bevels rising to a small central disc. In the central disc there is a deeply cut cross.

Inspiration for this pommel can be found on many swords from this era. One fine example I documented last year is in the store room of the Borås museum. A small photo of the hilt of this sword can be seen on Albions site where the Baron is presented. The cross of this original sword also served as inspiration for the carving of the cross of the Baron. I just made it slightly longer in proportion and a bit slimmer.

The pommel on the sword from the Thames (on page 99 in "Records") is another good example of this type of pommel.
I like these pommels and this XIIa, the Baron, was a good opportunity to make a version of this prominent type.

As to the pommel of the "Knight"- yes, that will also have a type J pommel, but one that is less oval.
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Howard Waddell
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PostPosted: Sat 27 Dec, 2003 4:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't have a side view yet of the Baron pommel, but here is a closeup front view.

Best,

Howy



 Attachment: 43.47 KB
xiiawax2b.jpg


Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
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David McElrea




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PostPosted: Sat 27 Dec, 2003 5:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Everyone

Thanks for the replies-- they were very helpful (in supplying me with the correct terminology as well).

I had seen the photo of the sword from the Borås museum on the Baron page, but was unable to make out much detail on the pommel++ good to know where it comes from.

Thanks also, Howy, for the closeup of the pommel-- I hadn't realised that the cross was in the form of a cross-crosslet. Adds a bit more romance to it really (images of Knights Templar, whatnot).

This might seem like a funny question to ask, but am I correct in thinking that some pommels would have the images on one face alone? I am thinking of Types such as Type K which would sometimes have a recess for enamelled heraldic devices etc. Will the Baron have the cross on both faces or just the one?

Peter wrote:
Quote:
The pommel on the sword from the Thames (on page 99 in "Records") is another good example of this type of pommel. I like these pommels and this XIIa, the Baron, was a good opportunity to make a version of this prominent type.


Peter, I look forward to seeing the finished result-- I really like the octagonal cross you've put on it as well.

Howy wrote:
Quote:
I don't have a side view yet of the Baron pommel, but here is a closeup front view.


Hi Howy-- Although I'm dying to see it, don't feel under pressure if you don't have the photos. If you do have the chance... great.

Thanks everyone for your responses.

David
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Sat 27 Dec, 2003 6:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David McElrea wrote:
Hi Everyone

This might seem like a funny question to ask, but am I correct in thinking that some pommels would have the images on one face alone? I am thinking of Types such as Type K which would sometimes have a recess for enamelled heraldic devices etc. Will the Baron have the cross on both faces or just the one?

David


When there is a recess in a pommel (that can be used for inserting medallions or coats of arms) you will usually find such a recess on both sides. A symbol can be found on one side only or different symbols on each side.

In this case the same cross is made on both sides.
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David McElrea




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PostPosted: Sat 27 Dec, 2003 6:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:
Quote:
In this case the same cross is made on both sides.


Thanks Peter-- I was hoping you would say that.

Cheers,

David
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