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Phillip Karnezis




Location: Chicago
Joined: 29 Jan 2004

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jun, 2006 2:58 pm    Post subject: Point or Tip?         Reply with quote

To whom it may concern:

I've been reading the repro weapons review section and i don't understand why your experts continually use the word "tip" in place of the real descriptor, "point."

I enjoy your reviews but this makes me question the expertise of the reviewer especially when it comes to the subject of handling.

please advise,

Phillip
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jun, 2006 3:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How would you suggest we deal with unusual swords such as two handed swords which sometimes actually had multiple points / barbs, but only one tip?
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Phillip Karnezis




Location: Chicago
Joined: 29 Jan 2004

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jun, 2006 3:43 pm    Post subject: The point is the point.         Reply with quote

Dear Sir:

I'm sorry but i don't understand the question.

please clarify and re-post and or provide an example.

kind regards,

Phillip
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 01 Jun, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: The point is the point.         Reply with quote

Phillip Karnezis wrote:
Dear Sir:

I'm sorry but i don't understand the question.

please clarify and re-post and or provide an example.

kind regards,

Phillip


Phillip,

If you look at this two handed sword, you can see that it has more than one point: http://www.deltin.it/5168.htm, hence Jared's question.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jun, 2006 4:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Philip,
A few things:

1) Our authors (myself included) have never tried to pass ourselves off as experts. We're volunteer hobbyists with a passion for learning and for sharing what we know with others. The only thing we know for sure is that we don't know all there is to know. When you claim expertise, you often stop learning. And that's missing the point (bad pun intended). Happy

2) Tip is defined by Webster's as: The end of a pointed or projecting object. So that fits the usage just fine. Webster's lists "tip" as a synonym for "point."

3) Respected makers use this term.

4) We've published dozens of articles and over a hundred reviews, many of them using this terminology over the past few years. There has never been confusion over the term that people have brought up.

5) In our Beginner's Glossary of terms we define the "Point" like this:

Quote:
Point
A term referring to the sharp tip or end of a sword blade at the opposite end of the hilt


Most people see the two terms as pretty much synonymous. In this hobby, many terms are used relatively interchangeably.[/i]

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,417

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jun, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Phillip,

For my reference and enlightenment, could you provide some background information as to why the term point should be preferentially used over tip in this context?

From a layman's perspective, I don't understand the technical difference.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

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-John F. Kennedy


Last edited by Joe Fults on Fri 02 Jun, 2006 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Jun, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another significant problem is that many swords do not have any "points" at all if by "point" you mean an acutely tapered piercing shape. An executioner's sword has a tip, but no point. A number of early medieval sword types--those famous dedicated cutting blades--have relatively rounded tips. I think it would be very misleading to refer to those shapes as "points". But every blade has a "tip".
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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James Nordstrom




Location: Sacramento, CA
Joined: 18 Sep 2003

Posts: 90

PostPosted: Sat 03 Jun, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As well as all of you have answered, I still suspect the original post was something of a trolling.

Cheers
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Alexander Ren




Location: Florida
Joined: 18 Apr 2005

Posts: 153

PostPosted: Sat 03 Jun, 2006 12:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Another significant problem is that many swords do not have any "points" at all if by "point" you mean an acutely tapered piercing shape. An executioner's sword has a tip, but no point. A number of early medieval sword types--those famous dedicated cutting blades--have relatively rounded tips. I think it would be very misleading to refer to those shapes as "points". But every blade has a "tip".


I agree and to go along, here are a few examples of swords with wide spatulate tips but no sharp thrusting point as well as a few executioner's swords::
http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spotxiii.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage....&pos=0
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...xecutioner
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p...oner#21293

Enjoy,
Alex

"The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle."
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Angus Trim




Location: Seattle area
Joined: 26 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Jun, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some of us started differentiating between tip and point, several years ago, while describing parts of the sword. The tip is the entire geometric section which might be described "where it curves to the point". The point itself is just that, a point right at the end of the sword, and/or right at the end of the tip.

The tip might be 2 inches long. The point, is just a point. Hard to measure a point.......

The tip of many swords can be used for cutting {quite often referred to as tip cutting}, and it is also the leading part of a blade in the thrust.........

swords are fun
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Ruel A. Macaraeg





Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 306

PostPosted: Mon 05 Jun, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I wonder, then, what we might call those blades which have a single continuous taper along the entire length of the blade. They'd have to be called either long tips on hilts, or pointed swords without tips (as opposed to tipped swords without points)... Razz
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Jun, 2006 9:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ruel A. Macaraeg wrote:
I wonder, then, what we might call those blades which have a single continuous taper along the entire length of the blade. They'd have to be called either long tips on hilts, or pointed swords without tips (as opposed to tipped swords without points)... Razz


I know you're just kidding, but it does present a real-world problem. This is when we whip out the the word "distal," which conveys nothing about the length or shape of the tip or point. It merely describes the area farthest from the hilt (thus, "distal taper"). Big Grin

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Ruel A. Macaraeg





Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 306

PostPosted: Mon 05 Jun, 2006 4:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, we probably do need to formalize the difference eventually.
But for now, despite Mr. Karnezis' objections, I'm "Still Tippin'"! Cool

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Jun, 2006 4:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm curious if the original poster's terminology is influenced by a focus on classical fencing.
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James Nordstrom




Location: Sacramento, CA
Joined: 18 Sep 2003

Posts: 90

PostPosted: Mon 05 Jun, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
I'm curious if the original poster's terminology is influenced by a focus on classical fencing.


Classical fencing uses point, true, but that is to make a distinction from sport (electrical) fencing that uses tip to define the mechanical part on the point of the epee and foil.

Cheers
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